Discussion Thread about Rum

[Uchiha Shadow 44]

Could it be Osamu Kenzaki? ---------------->

 

Has long hair(female part), is a male with masculine features and in his detective Samonji shows that he has a cut on his left eye, the old man part i am not very sure.

Since that's only in a detective show, Why would it have anything to do with the BO, not to mention that we need an artificial eye, not just a cut or a scar.

It's weird how even though we have 4 characteristics of RUM that should be fairy obvious, we can't find him, I think it's time to check previous cases' suspects and see their personalities and background, although it would take a lot of time.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Uchiha Shadow

[Minori 1]

This is interesting. Since it's artificial, I don't think it's really obvious but at the same time there would be a difference from the normal. In this case, the closing of the eyes while talking. It would also be interesting to see Heiji's father (yes, I want to emphasize it) to be a member of BO. He is influential and a member of the chief of police. If in the next series Heiji and his father would be there, I will definitely insist that he is RUM for 2 reasons. 1. It makes sense. 2. It adds another dimension to the plot

 

Here are my thoughts about RUM (with the help of the ideas of the posts here too)

 

1. Heizo Hattori is Rum.

2. Kansuke is not RUM because of the reasons stated here.

3. Kuroda is the "higher" officer of Rei Furuya in the Secret Police because

     a. He is old. 

     b. He is introduced after the Scarlet series.

     c. He was in comatose for 10 years. I don't think a second-in-command for BO would be someone coming from a comatose but it is feasible to have a  "higher officer" coming from a comatose. 

4. His mission is to identify (and eliminate) the rats in the organization and it is interesting to see that he is also a "rat" in the Police department. A high-ranked rat in particular

5. Unlike Kir and Boubon, he is loyal to the BO.

6. Rum might actually be Kuroda, not an officer in SP. Based on the spoilers I see for the next chapter, Ai is hiding behind Conan when Conan was approached by Kuroda - hinting that she smells the BO aura in him. 

 

ps. Im happy to see that many are also pissed? that there are too many unloyal BO members being introduced. (Almost half of the BO members are/were not really loyal... Bourbon, Kir, Rye, Scotch, Ethan Hondou, Miyano sisters, and even Vermouth)

Hattori Heizo would be my guess for RUM too. Most, if not all, secret organisations in history (or at least in movies lol) have high ranking members who infiltrated into the police, the Cabinet, or both. A powerful organisation wouldn't be powerful without this element - imagine the resources they could reap! And how else would they be able to be under the radar for so long?

 

I don't see the need to *look* like all 3 of the descriptions Haibara mentioned. It could just be one person who don't even fit any of these descriptions, so that he could be "invisible" even from within the organisation. He could have a group of messengers who don't look anything like him, to confuse the parties he work with. He might be a little young to be second-in-command, but who knows? He could be related to the Boss and he's the successor.

[Uncle Sporkums 123]

PirateKing over at DCTP had this theory, which I found pretty interesting:

 

After watching episode 783 (Scarlet Epilogue), and re-reading Chapter 898, I'm interested in the seemingly innocent case in between, that is Professor Agasa and the vinegar cups. Just a quick recap for those who haven't read recently - Professor Agasa places four cups in front of him - 3 contain vinegar and one contains lemon juice. He tells the Detective Boys that they can shuffle the glasses around while he's not looking, but he can always find the glass that contains the lemon juice - and he does.

Confused about this, the Detective Boys ask Conan and Subaru about it, who then attempt to solve the case. A lot of panels later, it's revealed that all four glasses actually contained vinegar from the start, and that Agasa was only pretended like he was drinking lemon juice in order to fool the Detective Boys. Right then, is (what I think) is a clue : 

Genta : "But that's..."
Subaru : "Cheating."

Now, while this just seems to be a another case of the unreliable narrator, what if it isn't? A few posts earlier, I'd mentioned that Rum's one-eyed appearance seems to good to be true, and that it's probably false information spread by Rum himself, so that the focus of those trying to identify him are turned the wrong direction. The lemon juice-vinegar case itself, where Agasa cheated up front looks to me like foreshadowing of Rum, and that his/her identity will not be who we think it is. 

It looks to me like Gosho is telling the reader that sometimes it's important to resort to a bit of cheating to get a point across, which is done by making Agasa cheat (which I don't think he's done before). It's like a veiled statement that even Gosho may cheat from there on when he reveals information to us - like the case of Rum's fake eye, and that the readers shouldn't take it at face value. I'm going to be a little careful about writing down people with fake eyes as Rum, because he/she might not even have a fake eye in the end. Just what I think, though.

 

 

[Balthazar Manfredie 226]

an interesting take

i would love to read Cheks response to it since im not invested in DC for a long time like before

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

That vinegar cups case is pretty interesting to think about as a foreshadowing case.
 
The "fake eye is fake info" theory is a one take on the data. I actually came to sort of an opposite hypothesis. I forget where I posted this, probably the spoiler cbox, but it strikes me as particularly odd why all the Black Organization members disagree about obvious appearance facts that you would typically notice first about a person like whether Rum is feminine, manly, or old, yet all of them agree on him having a fake eye, especially when fake eyes are usually pretty subtle.
 
One reason why everyone could be hung up on Rum's prosthetic eye is because it is so obvious and striking that everyone's attention is drawn to it to the exclusion of the rest of his features. Think about what would happen if Rum's prosthetic eye is obviously electronic and kind of creepy, while he dresses otherwise nondescriptly like in hat and bulky trenchcoat that covers him up pretty well? You would be too busy staring at his face instead of the rest of him. If asked what the rest of him looked like, you might not be able to recall clearly. A cyborg-like eye wouldn't be out of character for DC as long as there is a reason for it. We have plenty of eye related gadgets already, like Conan's glasses and Kaitou Kid's monocle. What's to say the Organization couldn't doctor up a fake eye gadget for their number two? And maybe to add the confusion he can pop it out in favor of a subtle glass eye when going out in public. That would be quite the cheat.
 
Rum has a Mad-Eye Moody eye theory...

[alyeyad 0]

...........................................

[Serinox 127]

Just have few questions i found when i was searching about Rum and Didnt find an answer....

 

1-Is Wataru Date scotch?

 

2-How Did Kuroda know about conan being behind sleeping kogoro?

 

1. No, Gosho said in a postcard, that Date is not Scotch.

 

2. From his subordinates in Nagano, maybe even from Kansuke directly. Kansuke and Yui both more or less directly say in the Red Wall Case, that they think that Conan is the brain behind Sleeping Kogoro. Note, that this doesn't mean that they know about the method Conan uses to make the Sleeping Kogoro happen nor do they know or think about Conan being Shinichi.

[Heliotropic 139]

Just have few questions i found when i was searching about Rum and Didnt find an answer....

 

1-Is Wataru Date scotch?

 

2-How Did Kuroda know about conan being behind sleeping kogoro?

 

3- Is the "Bourbon was helping Sherry in episode 704" Theory True?

 

4-Has Rum got a real fake eye, or that was kind of manipulation?

1. Quite positive Date is confirmed by Gosho not to be Scotch in a postcard. http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/forum/topic/1555-translating-interviews/?p=358939

 

2. We don't know too much about Kuroda, so I don't think anyone knows exactly how he knows. Maybe it's a rumor going around in the Nagano prefecture, seeing as how Morofushi, Kansuke, and Yui all have noticed Conan's intelligence, with Kansuke even making a remark about how he thinks Conan is the one behind Sleeping Kogoro. Kuroda was the managing officer of the Nagano prefecture, and he is now the Superintendent of the MPD 1st Division. I'd say he has some access to information in the least. Maybe he conducted his own investigation? Why is really beyond me, seeing as he (supposedly) recently came out of a coma. 

 

3. That's why it is a theory. I'd say it's a possibility, for sure, seeing as he didn't really have any intention to kill her, and he knew her mother as a child. Hacking Kogoro's computer and turning over the information to the organization feels quite risky, but it might be a necessity to really make the organization think she is dead.

 

4. We don't really know. I'd say it's likely seeing as how the one thing that always added up in Rum's description was that he had a prosthetic eye.

[Uchiha Shadow 44]

That vinegar cups case is pretty interesting to think about as a foreshadowing case.

 

The "fake eye is fake info" theory is a one take on the data. I actually came to sort of an opposite hypothesis. I forget where I posted this, probably the spoiler cbox, but it strikes me as particularly odd why all the Black Organization members disagree about obvious appearance facts that you would typically notice first about a person like whether Rum is feminine, manly, or old, yet all of them agree on him having a fake eye, especially when fake eyes are usually pretty subtle.

 

One reason why everyone could be hung up on Rum's prosthetic eye is because it is so obvious and striking that everyone's attention is drawn to it to the exclusion of the rest of his features. Think about what would happen if Rum's prosthetic eye is obviously electronic and kind of creepy, while he dresses otherwise nondescriptly like in hat and bulky trenchcoat that covers him up pretty well? You would be too busy staring at his face instead of the rest of him. If asked what the rest of him looked like, you might not be able to recall clearly. A cyborg-like eye wouldn't be out of character for DC as long as there is a reason for it. We have plenty of eye related gadgets already, like Conan's glasses and Kaitou Kid's monocle. What's to say the Organization couldn't doctor up a fake eye gadget for their number two? And maybe to add the confusion he can pop it out in favor of a subtle glass eye when going out in public. That would be quite the cheat.

 

Rum has a Mad-Eye Moody eye theory...

But, if the members actually saw RUM, they would still be able to know from his figure whether he is a big strong guy, an old man, or a feminine man, and even if he wears a bulky trench-coat, the difference between a strong guy(like Matsumoto and Kuroda) and a feminine man or an old man is bigger than to be hidden by just that, right? And I don't think it's really easy to disguise as an old man or a feminine man if he was a big strong guy, but if he was one of the other two, then it might be easier, anyway, so that again brings the question of why they aren't sure about RUM's characteristics but are sure about his artificial eye? I mean, sure, if he has a really weird and obvious artificial eye then they would have their attention focused only on it, but even then you can still tell a big strong guy from an old man or a feminine man right? And what if RUM doesn't even appear in front of the members? How did they even know about his artificial eye?

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

But, if the members actually saw RUM, they would still be able to know from his figure whether he is a big strong guy, an old man, or a feminine man, and even if he wears a bulky trench-coat, the difference between a strong guy(like Matsumoto and Kuroda) and a feminine man or an old man is bigger than to be hidden by just that, right? And I don't think it's really easy to disguise as an old man or a feminine man if he was a big strong guy, but if he was one of the other two, then it might be easier, anyway, so that again brings the question of why they aren't sure about RUM's characteristics but are sure about his artificial eye? I mean, sure, if he has a really weird and obvious artificial eye then they would have their attention focused only on it, but even then you can still tell a big strong guy from an old man or a feminine man right? And what if RUM doesn't even appear in front of the members? How did they even know about his artificial eye?

 

Maybe he/she uses body doubles, and all of them have that artificial-looking eye.

[Uchiha Shadow 44]

Maybe he/she uses body doubles, and all of them have that artificial-looking eye.

Funny how I actually thought about that the other day, it can easily explain everything, but there is really no proof right now.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Funny how I actually thought about that the other day, it can easily explain everything, but there is really no proof right now.

Yep—quite frankly, speculation is all we have until more Files are released.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

File 925
 

I guess it's nice that we know now for certain that Ai didn't sense the BO aura from Kuroda as well.

That's pretty much a deconfirmation for Hyoue Kuroda on top of what we already know

• He's the obvious, overly suspicious suspect archetype which is usually the wrong answer in a three suspect ring (like Jodie, Akai, Eisuke, Camel)
• He starts by knowing a lot of dangerous stuff about Conan which he should move on, yet hasn't.
• He has seen Ai up close and failed to recognize or act. (Which Ai pretty much said herself. The Ai test is canon now)
• Gosho said Rum appeared before Kuroda did.

 
Right now my line of thought is that Rum probably has/will appear close to Shuukichi or the unknown child in order to tie them into the plot at large. Rum's reason for movement must be 1) something pretty important and/or 2) something only he can do owing to his particular public position. Even Sherry hunting was tasked to the lower-level codenamed agents. Maybe they found out someone is alive who shouldn't be. (e.g. Maybe the BO thought they killed Akai's mom, now the unknown child, but the BO intercepted a communication that seems to imply she lived despite being dosed with APTX. The BO don't know she has shrunken, so they are still searching for an adult woman. Masumi keeps moving her unwell mom between hotels to evade suspicion/recognition because Momma Akai is pretty-distinctive looking. Masumi wants to dump Momma Akai off at a safer location, like someone's house, but Momma doesn't trust anyone enough yet. Masumi is trying to convince Mom that Conan is trustworthy.)

[Uchiha Shadow 44]

File 925

 

That's pretty much a deconfirmation for Hyoue Kuroda on top of what we already know

• He's the obvious, overly suspicious suspect archetype which is usually the wrong answer in a three suspect ring (like Jodie, Akai, Eisuke, Camel)
• He starts by knowing a lot of dangerous stuff about Conan which he should move on, yet hasn't.
• He has seen Ai up close and failed to recognize or act. (Which Ai pretty much said herself. The Ai test is canon now)
• Gosho said Rum appeared before Kuroda did.

 

Right now my line of thought is that Rum probably has/will appear close to Shuukichi or the unknown child in order to tie them into the plot at large. Rum's reason for movement must be 1) something pretty important and/or 2) something only he can do owing to his particular public position. Even Sherry hunting was tasked to the lower-level codenamed agents. Maybe they found out someone is alive who shouldn't be. (e.g. Maybe the BO thought they killed Akai's mom, now the unknown child, but the BO intercepted a communication that seems to imply she lived despite being dosed with APTX. The BO don't know she has shrunken, so they are still searching for an adult woman. Masumi keeps moving her unwell mom between hotels to evade suspicion/recognition because Momma Akai is pretty-distinctive looking.) Masumi wants to dump Momma Akai off at a safer location, like someone's house, but Momma doesn't trust anyone enough yet. Masumi is trying to convice Mom that Conan is trustworthy.)

That would make sense, but I hope RUM also has another mission that is more important, because unless Akai's mother is extremely important and dangerous to the BO, it should be a mission for a normal agent, I also hope we'll get something on the drug and program development now that the 2 developing them are not in the BO.

[Hanfois 5]

I think that "The three cups" of vinegar quiz might have two possibilities/messages meant by Gosho:

1)First possiblity:"cheating" which means he will be cheating about the description of RUM.As someone mentioned before,the fact that he has a fake eye was just a lie spread by RUM to mislead the detectives.But this doesn't mean the other 3 descriptions (Old,strongly built,feminine) man don't apply.

I think Taka'aki Morofushi would be the most likely if this possibility is true for the following reasons:

-He has the 3 featured mentioned above:

Feminine:hairstyle&slanted eyes-Old man:he has a feature of  zhuge liang which is "wisdom" he usually speaks like a wise oldman and gives advice to everyone - Strongly built

-in the anime Komei has not met Haibara yet,maybe that's why she felt the BO aura when Kuroda entered and Komei was standing next to him ,Also in 925 she said to Conan that she didn't feel the BO aura from Kuroda and she was afraid of his cold look,yet she might still have felt a BO aura in the space

2)second  possibility:Three "fake Cups" ,the message would be " 3 fake suspects of being RUM" these 3 are Kuroda,Komei and Yamato kansuke and none of them is RUM

Unlike Bourbon we had 3 suspects ,one of them was really bourbon,so maybe Gosho doesn't want to repeat himself

 

One more thing ,Kuroda is 90% not related to RUM for two reasons:haibara didn't feel the BO Aura from him

And according to this wikia "Kuroda's first appearance was in file 913" and Gosho mentioned that he already appeared in 2014 so RUM should have appeared "At or before File 906"

[Serinox 127]

I think Taka'aki Morofushi would be the most likely if this possibility is true for the following reasons:

-He has the 3 featured mentioned above:

Feminine:hairstyle&slanted eyes-Old man:he has a feature of  zhuge liang which is "wisdom" he usually speaks like a wise oldman and gives advice to everyone - Strongly built

-in the anime Komei has not met Haibara yet,maybe that's why she felt the BO aura when Kuroda entered and Komei was standing next to him ,Also in 925 she said to Conan that she didn't feel the BO aura from Kuroda and she was afraid of his cold look,yet she might still have felt a BO aura in the space

Would you call Komei "strongly built"? I thought he was rather slender, especially compared to Yamato.

Also, Komei wasn't standing besides Kuroda when Haibara met Kuroda. If Haibara said she didn't feel the BO aura, then she didn't. If she "might still have felt a BO aura in the space" she would've said that she felt BO presence, because we've been shown before, that Haibara can feel the BO, regardless of their position from her, as long as they are close; she even felt Bourbon driving in a car behind her.

Haibara can distinct between normal fear and BO fear, so if she said, she didn't feel any BO presence when she met Kuroda, then she says the truth.

[Uncle Sporkums 123]

I agree with the "sense" thing, but keep in mind that "strong" doesn't have to mean "strongly built and muscular".

[Hanfois 5]

My bad i apologize ,I haven't read file 920 in detail and thought that Yamato and Komei were standing near Kuroda

For the strongly built thing, i just mentioned the description,but didn't say he was strongly built,actually his body height and size is normal like Yamato but we don't know how strong he might be.

Let's keep in mind that Komei hasn't confronted Haibara yet

 

For Hattori's father possibilty

Is it true that Gosho said that Heiji will not get involved with the BO again because it's too dangerous? (i remember reading this but couldn't find it again on google,maybe it was a fake int. or mistook kaitou kid with Heiji)

If that's true then Heizo is definitely not RUM

[Uchiha Shadow 44]

My bad i apologize ,I haven't read file 920 in detail and thought that Yamato and Komei were standing near Kuroda

For the strongly built thing, i just mentioned the description,but didn't say he was strongly built,actually his body height and size is normal like Yamato but we don't know how strong he might be.

Let's keep in mind that Komei hasn't confronted Haibara yet

 

For Hattori's father possibilty

Is it true that Gosho said that Heiji will not get involved with the BO again because it's too dangerous? (i remember reading this but couldn't find it again on google,maybe it was a fake int. or mistook kaitou kid with Heiji)

If that's true then Heizo is definitely not RUM

I think your confusing 2 things:

1) Gosho said Kaito Kid won't be involved with the BO.

2) Conan said he won't involve Heji with the whole RUM thing.

[Balthazar Manfredie 226]

 

 Conan said he won't involve Heji with the whole RUM thing.

it will always be strange to me that someone like heiji does not sniff around about the BO on his own 

like, im gona steal your show

[Serinox 127]

2) Conan said he won't involve Heji with the whole RUM thing.

Conan just said that he doesn't have enough leads to get Heiji involved, not that he won't involve him at all.

 

[Uchiha Shadow 44]

Conan just said that he doesn't have enough leads to get Heiji involved, not that he won't involve him at all.

 

Correct, but I just wanted to mention that Conan said that.

[Hanfois 5]

To narrow down the number of suspects,We should figure out why RUM out of a sudden started his mission the next morning right after the scarlet interrogation,I believe that his mission is to find&kill Akai,Remember that piece of information leaked out by Camel to Vermouth that Kusuda committed suicide with a gun.Seems like the BO didn't reach any info about how Kusuda died untill File 894

By comparison:

AKai's fake death video showed that he was shot in the Forehead

Vermouth in file 894 figured out (with Bourbon's hinting that the burnt body was of Kusuda)

that the gunshot hole would be at the side of the skull not in the forehead.so the burnt skull drawn at the cover of this file must be a  hint from Gosho

 

I assume that Vermouth reported this piece of info and Bourbon's theory to RUM after meeting him

that's why RUM went to the morgue to make sure of Akai's corpse himself.

 

And those who can only visit someone's Corpse in the morgue must be either :one of Akai's family (Sera,unknown child,shukichi haneda) Or a member of the police

I doubt it's one of Akai's family,Sera and the unknown child seem like they are hiding from someone and the need Conan's help ,also remember that Scar akai put sera to sleep on that train case so she can't be  RUM.Shukichi haneda (most probably the 2nd Akai son) met Haibara in the shogi tournament Arc and she didn't feel any suspicion towards him

Another Thing to prove that RUM's mission is related to Akai is that Kir sent that message to one person (subaru/Akai) Jodie and Camel didn't know of it,also James Black didn't receive it otherwise he would be the one to tell Jodie and Camel about RUM not Akai.

[Serinox 127]

Why would Vermouth report the info and Bourbon's theory to Rum? As soon as she realizes that Bourbon is right, she tries to argue against it and get him away from his theory, because she wants to protect Conan, Akai and Kir. Thus, she has no reason to report it to Rum. Neither does Bourbon, since he was planning to capture Akai for the Secret Police and not for the BO, so reporting his theory before he has a hold of him, makes no sense either.

[Balthazar Manfredie 226]

for me its, where does the boss get the idea that the org is infested with rats and he needs to send RUM to clean up

in the last 5 years there have been only 2...i think