Discussion Thread about Rum

[Hanfois 5]

Vermouth for sure is trying to protect Conan,But protect Kir and Akai?? why would she do this even though Akai shot at her at the shipping board scene.

It's possible that she didn't report Bourbon's theory but the info she got from Camel must have been forwarded to a higher rank.Yet i wonder why she told Bourbon after the Scarlet interrogation "From now on,You shouldn't do as you like" Maybe someone asked her about Bourbon and she told them what he was thinking of that morning (His theory)

[Serinox 127]

Because Vermouth wants to see the BO fall and protecting Akai helps with that. And Vermouth knows that Kir is CIA, so by not telling the other BO members, she is protecting Kir.

Why does the info Camel gave her have to be forwarded to the higher-ups? Vermouth isn't really the communicative type as we see plenty of times and she has no reason to share that info with anybody but Bourbon, who asked her to retrieve it. And Bourbon surely won't share it, considering he is Secret Police and stuff. Also, I don't know what translation you are reading, but in the one I'm reading reading, she says "You'll stop doing this sort of thing now, won't you?" referring to his recent solo actions.

Is there any reason to believe that the info that Camel spilled was shared to anybody else than Bourbon? I don't think so.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Because Vermouth wants to see the BO fall and protecting Akai helps with that. And Vermouth knows that Kir is CIA, so by not telling the other BO members, she is protecting Kir.

Why does the info Camel gave her have to be forwarded to the higher-ups? Vermouth isn't really the communicative type as we see plenty of times and she has no reason to share that info with anybody but Bourbon, who asked her to retrieve it. And Bourbon surely won't share it, considering he is Secret Police and stuff. Also, I don't know what translation you are reading, but in the one I'm reading reading, she says "You'll stop doing this sort of thing now, won't you?" referring to his recent solo actions.

Is there any reason to believe that the info that Camel spilled was shared to anybody else than Bourbon? I don't think so.

 

The thing about whether Vermouth knows about Shuichi's fake death is up for debate. Her initial shocked reaction to Bourbon's theory was followed by a smirk—this could easily mean that she was humoring Bourbon, appearing to be horrified at the possibility, and then revealed her true reaction of doubt. She calls his efforts a "farce," after all—she could really believe that her helping Bourbon was a waste of time.

[Balthazar Manfredie 226]

i do have a slight problem with this that Vermouth wants the BO to fall

she seems to take her missions seriously and if i wasn't for  that protecting conan stuff, her plans might go all the way through

seems like every time her mission was a bust cause of those feelings for the Kudos ( a killer cant have that )

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

i do have a slight problem with this that Vermouth wants the BO to fall

she seems to take her missions seriously and if i wasn't for  that protecting conan stuff, her plans might go all the way through

seems like every time her mission was a bust cause of those feelings for the Kudos ( a killer cant have that )

Yep—the only reason Shinichi/Conan has a chance is because he and Ran saved her. 

 

Which is why I don't think she believes that Shuichi faked his death—she'd probably be after Hidemi/Rena/Kir just like she went after Shiho/Ai, once she found out who and where she was, if that was the case. Neither Shinichi/Conan nor Shuichi/Subaru can save Hidemi/Rena/Kir if Vermouth makes a move.

[Kurara-chan 13]

while vermouth wants BO to fall, she only allows 1 silver bullet, shinichi that is.

i don't think vermouth will share her info to RUM but if she is asked, she probably would tell

[Balthazar Manfredie 226]

Yep—the only reason Shinichi/Conan has a chance is because he and Ran saved her. 

 

Which is why I don't think she believes that Shuichi faked his death—she'd probably be after Hidemi/Rena/Kir just like she went after Shiho/Ai, once she found out who and where she was, if that was the case. Neither Shinichi/Conan nor Shuichi/Subaru can save Hidemi/Rena/Kir if Vermouth makes a move.

to be fair here

with amuro revealing his theory to her

im a bit surprised that she, knowing that conan is shinichi, does not think that amuros theory might have some truth to it giving that she knows what conan is capable of

conan makes people hidden well 

[Serinox 127]

while vermouth wants BO to fall, she only allows 1 silver bullet, shinichi that is.

Why? She didn't have a problem with two silver bullets between Full Moon Double Mystery and Clash of Red and Black and when Amuro tells her that Akai is still alive and she realizes that he is right, she tries to argue against it and protect Shuichi.

[Uchiha Shadow 44]

Why? She didn't have a problem with two silver bullets between Full Moon Double Mystery and Clash of Red and Black and when Amuro tells her that Akai is still alive and she realizes that he is right, she tries to argue against it and protect Shuichi.

Honestly this is only speculation, it's not a fact, it might be the case, but it might also be that she just smiled because she thought his theory was silly.

[EthanHunter 7]

This might have been mentioned earlier but Gosho somewhere (Sherry's soliloquy probably) said that RUM had already appeared before the kawanakajima or whatever case, therefore, if kuroda did not appear before(probably not, because he was in coma for 10 yrs) he is probably not a suspect.

I think this thread should be more active, so who is the most likely suspect at the moment? Unlike the boss, we know for sure that RUM has appeared somewhere before.

Another thing, although RUM might have a reason to be in all caps, I don't think there is one, simply because Japanese people, especially when it comes to manga, don't use small English letters often, so RUM would be more natural than rum or Rum. Also, Gosho probably avoided katakana mainly to avoid confusion with LUM or anything else but of course there is the chance of it being a short form for something too.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

This might have been mentioned earlier but Gosho somewhere (Sherry's soliloquy probably) said that RUM had already appeared before the kawanakajima or whatever case, therefore, if kuroda did not appear before(probably not, because he was in coma for 10 yrs) he is probably not a suspect.

I said as much on DCTP, but I am worried that Gosho's quote about Rum appearing before refers to a one-off gag panel where he had a character called Lum from another Shounen Sunday manga appear as the newest Black Organization member Rum.

 

so who is the most likely suspect at the moment?

I have no suspects at the moment. Kuroda is the "too suspicious so he's a good guy" archetype. There was that one-eyed guy from the last Magic Kaito case, but he was too dumb and uncool. There are some other intelligent characters who have appeared recently, but they are either accounted for as other plot important characters (e.g. Shuukichi = akai middle bro) or haven't done anything suspicious (e.g. Koumei). Basically I'm waiting for something to actually happen (The Rum arc equivalent of Okiya moving into the Kudo house or Scar Akai appearing at Teito bank) that would signal the plot is afoot.

[Heliotropic 139]

This might have been mentioned earlier but Gosho somewhere (Sherry's soliloquy probably) said that RUM had already appeared before the kawanakajima or whatever case, therefore, if kuroda did not appear before(probably not, because he was in coma for 10 yrs) he is probably not a suspect.

The Rum has already appeared is from an AC hint from September of 2014. It can always be a bit difficult to say he is serious, especially because the hint was followed by a "laugh". As Chekhov mentioned it could be a reference to the MyLumx34 articles, but that was around 8 years ago if I'm not mistaken. (Though I doubt that Gosho would make a dated AC hint based on something like that)

 

But yes, if it is true, then any new characters, such as Kuroda are disqualified from being Rum. I wouldn't say that would be a good mindset to take though. Even if we ignore that hint, Kuroda is essentially dismissed as a Rum candidate at this point due to the information received in File 920/925, not to mention he was a fairly obvious Red Herring.

 

If I had to pick any particular suspect that has already appeared it would be the old man from Camel's past. He's really the only character that comes to mind that is already introduced and could be a sensible Rum suspect.

Many people are suspecting Rum to be old (Maybe close to Pisco's age). If he's close to the boss, and second in command, he could have been involved with the organization for quite some time. If I'm not mistaken, only one eye was shown in the anime/manga, so it's possible that the old man from Camel's past could have a prosthetic. He also reappeared in the Scarlet series, not that this really means anything...

 

At this point, we simply need more information.

 

[Uchiha Shadow 44]

The Rum has already appeared is from an AC hint from September of 2014. It can always be a bit difficult to say he is serious, especially because the hint was followed by a "laugh". As Chekhov mentioned it could be a reference to the MyLumx34 articles, but that was around 8 years ago if I'm not mistaken. (Though I doubt that Gosho would make a dated AC hint based on something like that)

 

But yes, if it is true, then any new characters, such as Kuroda are disqualified from being Rum. I wouldn't say that would be a good mindset to take though. Even if we ignore that hint, Kuroda is essentially dismissed as a Rum candidate at this point due to the information received in File 920/925, not to mention he was a fairly obvious Red Herring.

 

If I had to pick any particular suspect that has already appeared it would be the old man from Camel's past. He's really the only character that comes to mind that is already introduced and could be a sensible Rum suspect.

Many people are suspecting Rum to be old (Maybe close to Pisco's age). If he's close to the boss, and second in command, he could have been involved with the organization for quite some time. If I'm not mistaken, only one eye was shown in the anime/manga, so it's possible that the old man from Camel's past could have a prosthetic. He also reappeared in the Scarlet series, not that this really means anything...

 

At this point, we simply need more information.

 

Although, I think that man was a disguised Bourbon, it makes sense because he was the one who wanted to prove that Akai was FBI, and the cloths that the old man was wearing are similar to the cloths Bourbon was wearing as Scar Akai, but it is possible he was RUM.

[Serinox 127]

I think this thread should be more active, so who is the most likely suspect at the moment? Unlike the boss, we know for sure that RUM has appeared somewhere before.

Nobody. Without Kuroda and Kansuke (both confirmed as not Rum through Gosho's Animal Crossing Hints), there is no suspect at the moment. Of course, you can find characters throughout the course of the series that fit one or even maybe two of the Rum characteristics Ai listed, but no one in the series has had an artificial eye so far. There is not enough material to speculate about Rum's identity without wandering into completely baseless territory atm

[AznableAmuro 2]

Now that I think about it, it might be possible that Shuukichi could be RUM and in fact, not the middle Akai brother. He looks kind of feminine (at least to me), he might be considered well-built (I know he's not as "big" as Kuroda, but Kansuke is kind of the same complexion as Shuukichi, I think, and Conan considered him well-built), and he might be mistaken for someone old due to the old-fashioned clothes he wears. I know it seems pretty obvious he's the middle brother, but we know we can't trust Gosho's obvious hints. Like Jodie being Vermouth, Okiya being Bourbon, Eisuke being from the BO, making it seem impossible that Eisuke and Rena are brothers, and so on.

I'm not saying I'm sure Shuukichi is RUM, I just think it might be possible. The more he's hinted to be the middle bro, the more he's unlikely to be it.

[DCUniverseAficionado 252]

Now that I think about it, it might be possible that Shuukichi could be RUM and in fact, not the middle Akai brother. He looks kind of feminine (at least to me), he might be considered well-built (I know he's not as "big" as Kuroda, but Kansuke is kind of the same complexion as Shuukichi, I think, and Conan considered him well-built), and he might be mistaken for someone old due to the old-fashioned clothes he wears. I know it seems pretty obvious he's the middle brother, but we know we can't trust Gosho's obvious hints. Like Jodie being Vermouth, Okiya being Bourbon, Eisuke being from the BO, making it seem impossible that Eisuke and Rena are brothers, and so on.

I'm not saying I'm sure Shuukichi is RUM, I just think it might be possible. The more he's hinted to be the middle bro, the more he's unlikely to be it.

 

If he is Rum, what's the point of his romance with Yumi? Would Rum really fall asleep and drool over someone's arm?

[Balthazar Manfredie 226]

Aside from vermouth i dont think any other BO member is a celeb, so to speak

Even she stays out of the publics eye.

Some things are just obvious, and he is not RUM

[Guest]

Aside from vermouth i dont think any other BO member is a celeb, so to speak

Even she stays out of the publics eye.

 

"Chris" only had to be hidden from the public while "Sharon" was still alive. Once "Sharon" was killed off, "Chris" came out publicly, and remained that way all the way up until recently when we see "Chris" arrive in Japan during the Pisco case.  

 

Kir was basically the news castor version of a celeb. The name "Mizunashi Rena" had enough recognition that pretty much every one noticed when she disappeared. 

[Hanfois 5]

If Shuukichi is not the middle brother and turns out to be RUM,then why was Akai/Okiya was watching his news and smiled when he saw that he had won the tournament.Either that was a random scene to show that Akai is a fan of Shuukichi(i don't think so) or to show that he had met him before.Remember Akai when he said that he only "heared" RUM's name two or three times previously.Akai can't be that dumb to have met Shuukichi without knowing he is RUM

 

And why Gosho made it clear that Shuukichi may be the 2nd brother,simply because Shuukichi is not that type of guy who would go against the BO,wouldn't take important part in the plot and "maybe" he will not take part in the final showdown with the BO,he is more of a guy who wants to live peacefully,

[Balthazar Manfredie 226]

"Chris" only had to be hidden from the public while "Sharon" was still alive. Once "Sharon" was killed off, "Chris" came out publicly, and remained that way all the way up until recently when we see "Chris" arrive in Japan during the Pisco case.  

 

Kir was basically the news castor version of a celeb. The name "Mizunashi Rena" had enough recognition that pretty much every one noticed when she disappeared. 

oh yeah, thanks for that reminder

i feel a bit silly now

even pisco is somewhat famous

 

my bad my bad

[Guest]

If Shuukichi is not the middle brother and turns out to be RUM,then why was Akai/Okiya was watching his news and smiled when he saw that he had won the tournament.Either that was a random scene to show that Akai is a fan of Shuukichi(i don't think so) or to show that he had met him before.Remember Akai when he said that he only "heared" RUM's name two or three times previously.Akai can't be that dumb to have met Shuukichi without knowing he is RUM

And why Gosho made it clear that Shuukichi may be the 2nd brother,simply because Shuukichi is not that type of guy who would go against the BO and "maybe" he will not take part in the final showdown with the BO,he is more of a guy who wants to live peacefully

 

We also just came out of a really long time period of Akai lying to Jodie and Camel for their protection. 

 

 

Also please go look this up.... its kind of weird O_o.......

Okiya smiled at "Scar Akai" at the very end (last panel) of chapter 702. 

Chapter 802 is titled "please don't make that kind of face" and features Haibara remembering "Dai" 's and Okiya's smiles and comments.

And now Okiya smiling at Shukichi at the very end (last panel) of chapter 902. 

[AznableAmuro 2]

I'm not saying he's RUM, I just thought he fits his characteristics and it could be possible. And it wouldn't be really troublesome if he had a romance with Yumi, like people from an evil organization can fall in love anyway. In case someone considers falling asleep in a train something that a BO agent wouldn't do, it could be that it happened before he entered the BO and was still a normal person who would fall asleep unwillingly.

Besides, just like Jimmy Kudo said, Akai smiled at Bourbon during the thirteen red shirts arc, so why wouldn't he smile at Shuukichi? Maybe he suspects him to be RUM, or maybe he just met him during their school days. The fact that Akai smiles at someone doesn't mean it's his brother, right? People don't only smile at relatives. And just to mention, Conan smiles at criminals while doing his reasoning most of the time.

Even if BO agents couldn't be "celebrities" (which they can, and the best examples and Vermouth and Kir, as it was mentioned some posts above), Shuukichi isn't really a celebrity. Yumi doesn't even know he plays shogi even though she went out with him long enough to become his girlfriend. Conan didn't even recognise him when they met, and Sakurako didn't know who he was either. He's just well-known in the world of Shogi and also to some other people who might have seen him in the news.

 

The fact is that RUM has already appeared and we know it's not Kansuke or Kuroda. Nobody has been shown to have a prosthetic eye, but it doesn't mean nobody has one. Someone among the characters we already know is the BO's second member, and to be honest no-one seems suspicious enough, so we can say Gosho is introducing a BO agent as a good guy as he has always done (except for those who are shown to be BO from the outset, like Gin, Vodka or Tequila). Araide wasn't suspicious, and we saw a BO agent about to act in a school play and teaching high school students. Then why won't another agent fall asleep in a train? We saw a BO agent as a reporter on TV, we saw Bourbon playing tennis with Ran and Sonoko. Why wouldn't another agent fall in love with Yumi? They don't all have to be creepy people. Most of the times the suspicious ones are just innocent and vice versa. I just think Shuukichi may be Rum, though we would need much more proof to state it accurrately (we would need more proof about any character to make them RUM suspects).

 

We'll see if he's or not RUM as Gosho starts giving more hints about both.

[Heliotropic 139]

The fact is that RUM has already appeared

 

Despite the fact that Gosho mentioned this in an Animal Crossing Hint in September last year, I think it's a bit too quick to say that this is factual, especially when we have a limited range of suspects, and that the AC hint was followed by a laugh. I just don't think we should rule out new characters because of that AC hint.

 

As for Shuukichi, keep in mind that it's increasingly more unlikely that he be Rum with what we know about him. He's met Haibara, and she doesn't sense the "aura" around him, and though her remarks in file 925 were directed at Kuroda, she said that if he were Rum then the professor's house would have been ransacked. This should definitely apply to Shuukichi as well.

Not to mention that Shuukichi is 28, and we know a bit about his past. I'd say he'd be far too young to be second in command imo.

 

Even if BO agents couldn't be "celebrities" (which they can, and the best examples and Vermouth and Kir, as it was mentioned some posts above), Shuukichi isn't really a celebrity. Yumi doesn't even know he plays shogi even though she went out with him long enough to become his girlfriend. Conan didn't even recognise him when they met, and Sakurako didn't know who he was either. He's just well-known in the world of Shogi and also to some other people who might have seen him in the news.

 

Not to be picky here, but I would consider Shuukichi to be a celebrity. He seems to be portrayed as such anyways. Conan did recognize him in his first appearance, or rather that he knew he was a famous Shogi player. It was mentioned at the end of File 849. Conan even assumes in File 928 that he's probably being flooded with interviews.

Why Yumi didn't know his career choice is beyond me, and it's even more questionable when you look at Shuukichi's motives for collecting all seven tiles. Naeko even tells her that Shuukichi is famous, but not what he does, and she misunderstands and somehow comes to the conclusion that he is a story-teller or something of the like in the same file.

[Guest]

  

Also please go look this up.... its kind of weird O_o.......

Okiya smiled at "Scar Akai" at the very end (last panel) of chapter 702. 

Chapter 802 is titled "please don't make that kind of face" and features Haibara remembering "Dai" 's and Okiya's smiles and comments.

And now Okiya smiling at Shukichi at the very end (last panel) of chapter 902. 

 

This post is purely for context of what I said in the above comment.

I just found it kind of funny that they line up on the X02 chapter numbers.  

posted the last page of 702 and 902 side by side at the link below. 

 

http://jimmy-kud0-tv2.tumblr.com/post/128871680248/detective-conan-file-702-vs-file-902-okiya-smiling

 

 

[EthanHunter 7]

For Jimmy:

Nice catch! Might be either a coincidence or Gosho playing with numbers; I can say I am pretty sure it won't be related to the plot. Secondly, the "types" of smiles were clearly different in all three cases, I don't think that is enough to determine Shuukichi is Rum, besides if we trust what Gosho said he has not appeared before. Now as I have mentioned before, it would be ridiculous and awful if Shuukichi turns out to NOT be the mid brother, and him instead being RUM would be the stupidest joke ever, I might even leave DC if that happens xD

BTW Shuukichi is kind of taken from Yoshiharu Habu, considered the best shogi player ever, I doubt he would be made one of the bad guys in the series, instead,  in the long term I think he might give some intellectual advice to Conan and co., he seems to be one of the very few people who are smarter than even Conan(Conan solved the intro case thanks to his hint) and as Sera mentioned before, he is clearly smarter than Akai. For that matter, he might even be a part of the Akai vs Bourbon clash because Bourbon IMO is far more intelligent than Akai though he is great too. 

 

PS: I just realized some of you are saying there are not too many ppl with one eye so we can't say there are many suspects, but there is a BIG difference between one eye and one fake eye, and in fact since Ai said it's hard to tell which one is fake it might very well be unnoticeable, so right now the fake eye would not be a good idea to eliminate someone from being a suspect.