Haneda Kohji Case Theories

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

As most of us already know by this point about the Haneda Kouji's dying message, I thought we might work something out if we do it in a separate topic. As far as the conclusion of Conan and Shuichi came to, I'm still doubtful about their resolve. Even though the BO thinks of the code in the same manner as Conan and Shuuichi think of (as proven in the "A Song named Asaka" Case), I still am curious about it's true meaning. Instead of the left off characters, I though of the PTON characters, I managed to find a certain idea. Though it might be all wrong, I just want to share it, it might help with something else. So PTON is what Kouji left in a mirror cut by him. Since he is a Shogi player, I took the idea to know if these letters mean anything in Shogi although I'm not an expert of the game. I manged to get the following; if P is the abbreviation of the pawn and another Japanese abbreviation is Fu, and the N is the abbreviation of cassia horse which also have the Japanese abbreviation of Kei. Then PTON could mean; Fu TO Kei, which might mean FUKEI, that perhaps coincidentally means policewoman in Japanese. Perhaps it is Kouji's way of saying that his killer is a policewoman, perhaps I'm thinking too deep into it. Just thought it might be an interesting idea. 

[MeiTanteixX 184]

3 minutes ago, Shinan-Kudogawa said:

As most of us already know by this point about the Haneda Kouji's dying message, I thought we might work something out if we do it in a separate topic. As far as the conclusion of Conan and Shuichi came to, I'm still doubtful about their resolve. Even though the BO thinks of the code in the same manner as Conan and Shuuichi think of (as proven in the "A Song named Asaka" Case), I still am curious about it's true meaning. Instead of the left off characters, I though of the PTON characters, I managed to find a certain idea. Though it might be all wrong, I just want to share it, it might help with something else. So PTON is what Kouji left in a mirror cut by him. Since he is a Shogi player, I took the idea to know if these letters mean anything in Shogi although I'm not an expert of the game. I manged to get the following; if P is the abbreviation of the pawn and another Japanese abbreviation is Fu, and the N is the abbreviation of cassia horse which also have the Japanese abbreviation of Kei. Then PTON could mean; Fu TO Kei, which might mean FUKEI, that perhaps coincidentally means policewoman in Japanese. Perhaps it is Kouji's way of saying that his killer is a policewoman, perhaps I'm thinking too deep into it. Just thought it might be an interesting idea. 

The whole point with the missing letters was meant so that the culprit wouldn't notice the dying message immediately, so I think it's better that we focus on "U MASCARA" instead.

 

That's a clever strategy and it makes sense, but that's beyond my reach of knowledge

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

2 minutes ago, MeiTanteixX said:

The whole point with the missing letters was meant so that the culprit wouldn't notice the dying message immediately, so I think it's better that we focus on "U MASCARA" instead.

 

That's a clever strategy and it makes sense, but that's beyond my reach of knowledge

Perhaps, but I was thinking that Kouji might have predicted that his killer would think of the U MASCARA, Therefore the first letters are the true message. Yet again, I doubt that the killer would leave any message of the victim laying around. It's still too vague for us to be certain of anything at this point..

[MeiTanteixX 184]

1 minute ago, Shinan-Kudogawa said:

Perhaps, but I was thinking that Kouji might have predicted that his killer would think of the U MASCARA, Therefore the first letters are the true message. Yet again, I doubt that the killer would leave any message of the victim laying around. It's still too vague for us to be certain of anything at this point..

I will address my thoughts on that thoroughly soon, but the fact that Kouji was able to leave message to begin with is an interesting discussion topic in of itself.

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

1 minute ago, MeiTanteixX said:

I will address my thoughts on that thoroughly soon, but the fact that Kouji was able to leave message to begin with is an interesting discussion topic in of itself.

I think that if my theory is right, then perhaps the killer of Amanda Hughes is Rum. But the killer of Kouji is a different one, perhaps the person who impersonated Asaca and a disciple of Rum. Who after the failed perfect crime scene being ruined by the mess of Kouji's room, managed to escape and therefore the BO is sensitive about it. Kouji's ability to leave such a message, is the result of Asaca being scolded by Rum and is instructed to search for Kouji who meanwhile leaves his message, only to be killed shortly after. Or Asaca is an agent of a police agency (perhaps the FBI) being hired by Amanda, who did try to delay Kouji's murder by fighting off the killer (Rum or his accomplices). Many things can be said about this case, as no evidence or clues are out yet.

[MeiTanteixX 184]

11 minutes ago, Shinan-Kudogawa said:

I think that if my theory is right, then perhaps the killer of Amanda Hughes is Rum. But the killer of Kouji is a different one, perhaps the person who impersonated Asaca and a disciple of Rum. Who after the failed perfect crime scene being ruined by the mess of Kouji's room, managed to escape and therefore the BO is sensitive about it. Kouji's ability to leave such a message, is the result of Asaca being scolded by Rum and is instructed to search for Kouji who meanwhile leaves his message, only to be killed shortly after. Or Asaca is an agent of a police agency (perhaps the FBI) being hired by Amanda, who did try to delay Kouji's murder by fighting off the killer (Rum or his accomplices). Many things can be said about this case, as no evidence or clues are out yet.

true.

[gg1998 3]

• A random thought just came to my mind about the Haneda Kohji murder case.
• What the does dying message really mean?
• "ASACA RUM" doesn't seem to be pointing anything at all, other than mention of the two names.
• How did Haneda know about the codename of the BO operative?
• Why Rum didn't notice the dying message, cause when Rum was poisoning Haneda by APTX, he ought to have seen the dying message, then why the BO operative didn't do anything about it?
• Was the message really left by Haneda?(Cause we know about a series of defensive injuries inflicted upon him and then he was poisoned by APTX so that no trace is left. Then how did Haneda was able to write the dying message. Conan readily compared the case with the one he was solving but the method's were vastly different. The Haneda's case looked more similar to the poisoning of Shinichi in the very first episode. First knocking the man out and then forcing him the APTX capsule. That's why I'm inclined to think that it was a ploy of Rum to implicate Asaca and Asaca being wary of been photographed made sense if she was an undercover agent protecting the American lady.)

[Jimmy-kud0-tv2 34]

But if the BO even noticed the dying message in the first place, why not just take all of the remaining mirror scraps and make it so there was no dying message, rather then make it so that it simply adds Asaka's name to it? The message still has the letters for "Rum" in it, which proves they were there to people who know what to look for. 

[gg1998 3]

5 hours ago, Jimmy-kud0-tv2 said:

But if the BO even noticed the dying message in the first place, why not just take all of the remaining mirror scraps and make it so there was no dying message, rather then make it so that it simply adds Asaka's name to it? The message still has the letters for "Rum" in it, which proves they were there to people who know what to look for. 

Not Bo but Rum out of his own volition to implicate ASACA.

[Jimmy-kud0-tv2 34]

2 minutes ago, gg1998 said:

Not Bo but Rum out of his own volition to implicate ASACA.

 

even so, why not just take the mirror?

the name Rum still appears in the message, so its not like Rum is cleared of suspicion.

[gg1998 3]

But then ASACA is implicated as Rum, not the original Rum.

[TheSilverBoy 0]

I think not rum who did this
maybe some members kill haneda by rum orders.

and maybe the member who did this was a drunk.for this reason This member has not observed / disposed of the pieces on the ground.

i think this.

[gg1998 3]

I've also attached the following diagram. I've discovered something in Kohji case which I previously missed out.

• The Dying message of Haneda Kohji were these Roman letters, "A,S,A,C,A,R,U,M".
• We can safely assume it was directed towards the murderer and the murderer's name was known by Kohji.
• It a fact that RUM was the perpetrator of the dual murders.
• So it must have been directed towards RUM, but Haneda was an unrelated person to the BO, he had no chance to know the code name of RUM.
• The mysterious bodyguard of Amanda(the other victim) did go missing after the case and is yet to surface, Asaca is the prime accused.
• Even if Rum was Asaca, the the dying message would have just been ASACA, the extra R,M,U make no sense, why a dying person would try to waste his last ounce of strength on something irrelevant, even if we can argue that R,M was the part of Mascara, even then why did he cut out the U separately, this means all the letters would be required in the dying message and it means neither ASACA nor RUM.
• So this clears that Asaca wasn't Rum.
• Now in the current timeline during the glass-cutting case Subaru-san mentioned that his father's involvement in the a fore mentioned case was his reason to join FBI but his father never worked for FBI. Probably if we go by the hint, he was in CIA.
• Then why Akai/Subaru-san didn't join CIA, instead of FBI?  This means FBI had more information about this case than CIA and it's to be noted that Amanda was closer to both CIA and FBI.
• Now we know from past records that ASACA was photo-phobic and the circumstances of her employment was also murky.
• Any common bodyguard won't be that sort of secretive, the reluctance of being photographed can be explained as heightened security measure but why the circumstances about the employment is so murky.
• It forced me to conclude that ASACA was the designated bodyguard from the FBI.
• Also Sera's Mama terms the inputs of the soul detective, "Asaca was a woman and she was seen with the mirror found in the crime scene."  which forces me to think that are these really true claims?
• If Amanda was at such a risk and Asaca was a woman, why didn't they share the room. It would have been fool-proof , but that wasn't the case, which forces me to think Asaca wasn't a woman and there was another woman with the mirror, who the soul detective mistook as Asaca.
• The woman with the mirror might have been a close contact of Haneda/or Rum disguised as the woman to get access to Haneda. Because Haneda's murder was unplanned and Rum only intended to kill Amanda, but Haneda got involved due to Amanda's visit and Rum killed Haneda to erase the traces.
• So the dying message was directed towards the woman as whom Rum disguised himself.
• There's also an persevering uploader of the case, whose blog despite being taken down at regular intervals, still manages to upload the key stuff about the Kohji case.
• The uploader has exclusive photos of the crime scene and knows about the bodyguard ASACA and the mysterious hiring process of Asaca.
• So the uploader had access to such sensitive information as if the up-loader was visibly present during the whole case.
• It also makes me think that the uploader is the woman, the same woman who was impersonated by RUM to kill those two.
• Now in the current RUM arc suspicious characters we are getting people fitting the descriptions,
• Chief Kuroda : Is very much interested in the case. Is interpreting the dying message as Wakasa Rumi. Probably Akai senior.
• Wakasa Rumi : Testing Conan's mettle by throwing unsolved mysteries at him. Shows more than enough to think she's something else than a Elementary school teacher, had a verbal spat with Kuroda, well versed in reverse psychology(burning tent case), has a hatred towards the word prosthetic, has some emotional attachment with something in her patch pocket, hates one eyed men. Probably The Uploader.
• Iori Muga : A devilishly charming Bishonen Butler, in the cafe case just after hearing the scream runs to guard the door so that the assilant can't escape. Has confidence in hand to hand combat and thinks that screams equal life threatening attacks. Perfect Asaca candidate.
• Wakita : The most intriguing one of the lot. Dspite being a sucshi chef wants to accompany Kogoro in only murder cases. Gin mentioned that Soul detective was Rum's headache and Kogoro's involvement in it was his. But Kogoro was invited by the soul detective, not the other way around. Now soul detective is dead and Rum's very anxious about recent stuff which involves him and surfacing at definite intervals. Perfect Rum candidate.

[MeiTanteixX 184]

41 minutes ago, gg1998 said:

 

Now in the current timeline during the glass-cutting case Subaru-san mentioned that his father's involvement in the a fore mentioned case was his reason to join FBI but his father never worked for FBI. Probably if we go by the hint, he was in CIA.

We agree here at least.

 

41 minutes ago, gg1998 said:

• Now we know from past records that ASACA was photo-phobic and the circumstances of her employment was also murky.
• Any common bodyguard won't be that sort of secretive, the reluctance of being photographed can be explained as heightened security measure but why the circumstances about the employment is so murky.
• It forced me to conclude that ASACA was the designated bodyguard from the FBI.

Why?

 

41 minutes ago, gg1998 said:

• If Amanda was at such a risk and Asaca was a woman, why didn't they share the room. It would have been fool-proof , but that wasn't the case, which forces me to think Asaca wasn't a woman and there was another woman with the mirror, who the soul detective mistook as Asaca.

What makes you think that they didn't?

 

41 minutes ago, gg1998 said:

• Chief Kuroda : Is very much interested in the case. Is interpreting the dying message as Wakasa Rumi. Probably Akai senior.

Agreed.

 

41 minutes ago, gg1998 said:

• Wakasa Rumi : Has some emotional attachment with something in her patch pocket

Or rather, the mysterious object has something to do with her hatred towards the keyword "prosthetic".

 

41 minutes ago, gg1998 said:

Iori Muga : Has confidence in hand to hand combat

We don't know that.

 

41 minutes ago, gg1998 said:

Wakita : Perfect Rum candidate.

Not really. He lacks the essential description compatibility. No effeminate angle, less likely to have a prosthetic.

 

[gg1998 3]

Quote

Why?

Because Subaru-san chose FBI over CIA. Despite his father was in CIA he chose FBI, this means being in FBI provided him a better playing field. Now Amanda was closer to both CIA and FBI, despite the involvement of CIA(through Akai-senior) we don't see a trace of FBI in the investigation. This means FBI was already in the mix (as both organizations are independent authorities). Now ASACA the body guard didn't like to be photographed and virtually nothing is known about the how she/he was hired in the first place.

Any ordinary bodyguard won't be this secretive, so it's highly likely that ASACA was a designated FBI guy/girl. (Guy in my opinion else would have shared the room with Amanda.If room sharing was the case then it would have mentioned in the blog, it's a key point. I can't imagine a cautious uploader missing it out.)

Quote

Or rather, the mysterious object has something to do with her hatred towards the keyword "prosthetic".

That's another way to phrase it, prosthetic triggers the anger towards someone and emotional attachment towards that thing.

Quote

We don't know that.

We know it Jolly well. During the cafe poirot stabbing case, Iori rushed towards the exit to make sure that the culprit couldn't escape. In a dark environment Iori is confident enough to take on an assailant(probably armed). That's some self confidence. http://circuit-magazine.com/what-are-the-characteristics-of-a-good-bodyguard/  I guess this link will help a lot. As you must have read my lengthy gripe in Reddit about different fallacies used by Gosho. In Iori's case I think he primed us to think his qualities as that of an Assasin's not of a bodyguard's.

Quote

Not really. He lacks the essential description compatibility. No effeminate angle, less likely to have a prosthetic.

• Again Gosho's fallacy is at work. It's pretty evident that Wakita lacks femininity but who ensures that Wakita's true appearance is that? Maybe he's a Vermouth level cosplayer. Also we're missing a key point in Gin's conversation with Vodka. He says, "That was a job which Rum screwed up, it doesn't concern me. But I'm interested in Kogoro's involvement." Now anybody would be thinking that Gin is the one to make a move not Rum as his point of interest is already gone. But wait a second, we are assuming two things beforehand.
• Rum has lost interest and Gin's interest is piqued.
• But Kogoro-ojisan was invited by the soul detective, not the other way round.
• BO has already Bourbon to look around Kogoro as he just works beneath his agency, so Gin's idea would be about employing Bourbon.
• But the real Rum would become very nervous due to this Online leaks and Hotta Gaito case, so Rum has a motive to get closer to Kogoro and figure out that whether he knows anything about the Case or not.
• He doesn't want to become Kogoro's disciple he wants to accompany him to scene of murder not Kogoro's next case. This proves wakita isn't intending to learn Kogoro's methods he just wants to accompany him to a murder case. Now Rum killed Haneda Kohji without even verifying that whether Haneda was really needed to be killed or not, I think the thinking matches here. Nip it in the bud. If a detective gets killed while investigating a crime scene isn't that much suspicion arising. I previously was blind towards these facts now I see them in a newer light. Thanks to the last case I know how devious Gosho can be with his fallacies. 

[MeiTanteixX 184]

3 hours ago, gg1998 said:

Guy in my opinion else would have shared the room with Amanda. If room sharing was the case then it would have mentioned in the blog, it's a key point. I can't imagine a cautious uploader missing it out.

You are already assuming that the uploader is a guy. Just because it wasn't mentioned doesn't mean that some things aren't kept hidden. Especially since this website is out in the public, the person who was directly involved in that case would naturally leave out things that would reveal their identity(like info that only one person would know). For example, if Asaka is the uploader, and was in the same room as Amanda(when she died), revealing that without evidence in the website would only expose the uploader's identity(because only Asaka herself would know this).

[gg1998 3]

That's a printing mistake ,mate. I meant that if ASaca was a girl then she would have shared the room with Amanda and the Hotel authorities would have found it out. The Police, CIA and FBI everyone would have known the fact as Hotel registers won't have lied. BTW if ASACA was the uploader then he/she would have also eased out the suspicious descriptions about him/herself, like how Asaka was photophobic and her hiring process is under mystery. But if the Uploader is a third party then it fits.

[MeiTanteixX 184]

3 hours ago, gg1998 said:

BTW if ASACA was the uploader then he/she would have also eased out the suspicious descriptions about him/herself, like how Asaka was photophobic and her hiring process is under mystery. But if the Uploader is a third party then it fits.

Not if she's intelligent enough to write it from a neutral standpoint, in order to avoid suspicions from whoever is removing it(BO). "Photophobic" is just your assumption from one photo, which is not a fact. She released an ambiguous photo and mentioned the hiring as a mystery. What does that reveal? Nothing.

[gg1998 3]

Quote

1 hour ago, MeiTanteixX said:

Not if she's intelligent enough to write it from a neutral standpoint, in order to avoid suspicions from whoever is removing it(BO). "Photophobic" is just your assumption from one photo, which is not a fact. She released an ambiguous photo and mentioned the hiring as a mystery. What does that reveal? Nothing.

• Then why she/he did even mention that there's a lack of pictures regarding Asaca? Why the only possible picture shows a person obstructing the camera, if Asaca wasn't Photophobic why did Asaca obstructed the camera?Why Asaca would even mention that the hiring was murkier if it makes Asaca more suspicious? She/he could have just ignored it. Use Bayesian reasoning here, given the fact that up-loader has described Asaca as someone absconding, photophobic and mysteriously hired, what is the probability of the Up-loader being Asaca? I can give you the example of Monty-Hall problem with a little tweak.
• Here you have three doors and behind one of the door Vermouth is waiting to give you a bottle of wine. Behind the other two doors there's Rum and Gin respectively, with their guns. Your objective is to choose the door behind which there's Vermouth. If You choose one of the doors behind which Gin or Rum is standing, they will shoot you.
• Now the game show host Mouri Kogoro suggests you a door. You can choose it or you can choose any other door.
• One of the two doors which you haven't chosen would be opened. Now if the opened door displays Vermouth with the wine bottle you're dead. Kogoro will kill you. If the opened door displays either Gin or Rum you get to live and you can even change your choice? What would you do? What would be your strategy? Employ the same reasoning here, btw Kogoro is drunk so his suggestions are purely random.

 

[MeiTanteixX 184]

20 minutes ago, gg1998 said:

Then why she/he did even mention that there's a lack of pictures regarding Asaca? Why the only possible picture shows a person hiding his/her face?Why Asaca would even mention that the hiring was murkier if it makes Asaca more suspicious? She/he could have just ignored it.

My point was that just because certain things weren't mentioned in the website(like Asaka being the same room as Amanda), doesn't mean that it didn't happen. As for Asaka being the uploader, since she and Tsutomu are the only candidates that we know were directly involved in the case, they are the only options that would possess those "minute-details"(As Agasa put it).

[gg1998 3]

1 minute ago, MeiTanteixX said:

My point was that just because certain things weren't mentioned in the website(like Asaka being the same room as Amanda), doesn't mean that it didn't happen. As for Asaka being the uploader, since she and Tsutomu are the only candidates that we know were directly involved in the case, they are the only options that would possess those "minute-details"(As Agasa put it).

But then the Police would have known that there were two people living in that room. Amanda can't just flout the Hotel's norms. Also there's the possibility of a fourth party, other than Rum, Akai senior and Asaca. Btw liked my puzzle?

[gg1998 3]

1. In Asaca song case BO sent Vermouth and Bourbon to investigate, as the song had close resemblance to the dying message of Koji case.
2. In soul detective case despite the announcement of the soul detective that he was going to dig up the Koji case by spirit summoning, went unnoticed by the BO. Not a single person was sent to investigate that matter.
3. So was BO sure that the first case might be important but the second is just a load of crap?
4. The dying message couldn't be Asaca as the U portion wouldn't be needed in that case.
5. So BO is looking for Asaca but pays no heed to the man who claimed that he had seen Asaca with a hand mirror.
6. Whom had Hotta seen in the first place? Not Asaka for sure else BO would be coming after him, so who is that woman whom Hotta had seen with the mirror? Does BO know who that woman was so Hotta's claim made was easily ruled out as bull crap?

[Aries Bless 18]

We don't know if they send someone to investigate Hotta or not, just because there weren't any BO-member in Hotta murder case. But they were aware that Hotta had claimed he had information and later they learned of his death. It could suggest that they were keeping an eye on him. Maybe they had a spy in the tv-station. Since Hidemi Hondou (Kir) worked there, it's possible there were more members there. And the dying message is believed to be ASACA RUM. And it wasn't Hotta who saw Asaka with a mirror. Hotta had found out that someone saw Asaka with a mirror.

[Aries Bless 18]

At the picture of Asaka, it seems like the ring finger is longer than the index finger. So it seems likely that Asaka is a male. But if it's a woman who just has a longer ring finger, then maybe Conan can use it as some sort of identification.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I think something to be aware of for the Kohji case, keeping in mind we don't know much about the room layout or setup, is that it took place in an American hotel. Many American hotels have rooms with adjoining doors so that you can visit another room without going into the main hallway. They are intended for large families or groups staying in adjacent rooms. I think it is reasonable to consider theories where Kohji and Amanda's room were linked like this, especially since she intended to see him.

 

See the pair of doors on the left? There's one for each side that can separately be locked. When both sides agree to unlock theirs, you can pass through without entering the hallway. Sometimes the gaps between the doors are quite large, other times they are small (especially for cheap hotels without good sound insulation.)