Ran finding out Conan is Shinichi?

[Antiyonder 10]

16 hours ago, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

The question then becomes WHEN should Ran find out that Conan is Shinich? I think this should happen somewhere after episode 1,000 (probably on episode 1,001), letting that be the line of demarcation. As for the circumstances, I imagine Ran being in some kind of danger involving the Black Organization (though not necessarily the Organization's endgame), and Conan is put in the situation where either the knowledge of his identity will somehow save Ran, or where saving her will somehow reveal his identity to her. From a storytelling standpoint, this would be the best way to present the reveal for its dramatic tension and intensity. This would also allow Conan, after the resolution of that conflict, to adequately demonstrate the threat posed by the Organization so as to somewhat quell Ran's anger at being deceived for so long.

 

Honestly, I feel it should have happened by the point you're reading due to it being an area where it seems to be agreed that her character became stale.  Though at any rate long before the final arc.  To wait until the end means either ignoring or downplaying the emotional consequences, whereas during the series allows for more time to give Conan a chance to redeem himself in that regard.

 

I have more to say, but I think I'll wait until you viewed more episodes as I gave a reason elsewhere for my stance, but it would spoil you on details.

[AnimeOtakuDrew 18]

 

14 hours ago, Antiyonder said:

 To wait until the end means either ignoring or downplaying the emotional consequences, whereas during the series allows for more time to give Conan a chance to redeem himself in that regard.

I agree the big reveal shouldn't wait until the end of the series, that's why I was saying the revelation should NOT be during the Black Organization's endgame and pointing out the story potential following such a revelation. I only said that episode 1,001 would be a good line of demarcation because the series is so close to that point already (less than 200 episodes short of it now). That way, the first 1,000 episodes are the pre-revelation story and 1,001-on is the post-revelation story. I thought that was a good place for such a major shift in the series. Other than that, what do you think of my ideas for HOW to handle the revelation and for Ran's reaction and how Conan/Shinichi should deal with it? Just curious.

14 hours ago, Antiyonder said:

I have more to say, but I think I'll wait until you viewed more episodes as I gave a reason elsewhere for my stance, but it would spoil you on details.

I am up to episode 420 now (that is watching the anime; my reading of the manga is progressing more slowly as I only just reached the introduction of Haibara). Not sure if that is far enough for your additional comments, but thought I would give an update, just in case.

[Antiyonder 10]

6 hours ago, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

I agree the big reveal shouldn't wait until the end of the series, that's why I was saying the revelation should NOT be during the Black Organization's endgame and pointing out the story potential following such a revelation. I only said that episode 1,001 would be a good line of demarcation because the series is so close to that point already (less than 200 episodes short of it now). That way, the first 1,000 episodes are the pre-revelation story and 1,001-on is the post-revelation story. I thought that was a good place for such a major shift in the series. Other than that, what do you think of my ideas for HOW to handle the revelation and for Ran's reaction and how Conan/Shinichi should deal with it? Just curious.

Yeah, might as well go with it being the milestone.  Though I will maintain it should have happened sooner, which I'll go into more spoilerific details after you at least get to 700-800.  But as that ship sailed, 1,000 is as good as any I suppose.  As for your approach:

 

The question then becomes WHEN should Ran find out that Conan is Shinich? I think this should happen somewhere after episode 1,000 (probably on episode 1,001), letting that be the line of demarcation. As for the circumstances, I imagine Ran being in some kind of danger involving the Black Organization (though not necessarily the Organization's endgame), and Conan is put in the situation where either the knowledge of his identity will somehow save Ran, or where saving her will somehow reveal his identity to her. From a storytelling standpoint, this would be the best way to present the reveal for its dramatic tension and intensity. This would also allow Conan, after the resolution of that conflict, to adequately demonstrate the threat posed by the Organization so as to somewhat quell Ran's anger at being deceived for so long.

 

Finally, Ran's reaction to the revelation. In short, she will be LIVID. But, I think it will be fairly easy for Shinichi/Conan to defuse her rage, especially if the reveal is handled like I have already said. The demonstrable danger of the Black Organization should partly calm her, assuming Conan gives the FULL explanation following the incident that led to the reveal. I believe that he could then completely defuse the rest of her anger with four words. "I love you, Ran." I think the shock of hearing these words from him for the first time would take the wind out of her sails, no matter how many times Conan has seen her naked, slept with her, or whatever; all of that would leave her mind entirely in the wake of an honest, heartfelt confession. And I believe that he would do it, too. I honestly believe he was going to tell her he loved her in the restaurant where his father proposed to his mother, but he reverted back to Conan before he had the chance.

 

It's not too bad, but I think there are other ways that Ran could be understanding.

 

I can't think of any myself, but there's this really great fanfiction called The Mystery of Conan Edogawa (https://www.fanfiction.net/s/4553963/1/The-Mystery-of-Conan-Edogawa) which has Ran doing her own detective work to prove once and for all.

 

Strongly recommend it, but maybe after you view up to 508.  Probably 20 episodes sooner, but I just want to get spoiler warnings out of the way.

 

I bring it up to be honest, because it seems like the perfect way to accomplish the much needed change.  Has Ran come onto the secret much sooner, I'd say any method would suffice, but part of the problem of the character is a lack of agency or not really getting much to do with her frequent screen time (even with her occasional absence, it just feels like she has the most appearances outside of the lead character).

 

Having her do some detective work is a great start to giving her character more to do in stories, and considering that Conan needs to be brought down some more pegs, having the one who he's dedicated much energy into deceiving is perfect karma.  Plus, it helps to demonstrate to non-fans and Conan himself that a girl outside the FBI, police or even the Organization can be strong.

 

That said, I don't think she needs to be put in danger to be sympathetic or forgiving.  Going with the aforementioned fic's approach, if she has the potential to find conclusive proof, I think she could easily come to the conclusion that he's not doing it to be a jerk (well at least not intentionally).

 

Now for the reaction, you seem to be on the right track.  I do think it should be a balanced nuanced one that doesn't give an easy answer.  As much as I feel that Conan would benefit from this development in that he has to own up to his own flaws, I don't want Ran to hate him or throw him out of her life.  But I don't want the problematic aspects of his protection to be brushed under the rug as well.

 

And as I'm guessing you agree on based on the part of your quote that I bolded, there's enough of a reason to believe that the secrecy can contribute to Ran or anyone else being in danger.  I mean Gin and Vodka aren't people I expect to show mercy to the ignorance.  At best they would refrain from a murder that would put them on the radar, but if they found out Conan is Shinichi, I don't see them taking the time to see if Kogoro or Ran are ignorant or aware.  And the fact that the provided him with a place to stay, plus know Shinichi himself is a reason to take the precaution of gunning them down.

 

Heck, unlike The Amazing Spider-Man 2 movie, the original comic book version of Gwen Stacy was targeted and killed by the Green Goblin inspite of never finding out that Peter is Spider-Man.  So yeah, assuming that your enemies will operate on a code of honor except for the occasional few is stupid.

 

Mind you, I believe there's enough of a reason for Ran to understand and forgive him, while still having her show some signs of pain due to feeling a lack of trust.  Enough so that Conan can mature a bit more through:

1. Realizing that sometimes a loved one can suffer more from the hero's good intentions than the villain(s) malicious intentions.  One will be unaware that their actions are wrong, while the other at least gives no pretense.

 

2. Realizing that a girl doesn't need to be in law enforcement to be strong and that sometimes you have to trust people in order to get by in life.

[Ayuna Yume 6]

[Ayuna Yume 6]

ARGH!  I'm freaking out, have been trying to sign up for soooo long, juz got to, OK this is my thought on the matter, I really want Ran to know Conan's identity coz its sad to see her waiting & missing someone who's right beside her, And I juz read all, I mean ALL, the comments and got new ideas and thoughts that I didnt even consider, I agree with @Antiyonder and loved @AnimeOtakuDrew's Idea, I really hope Ran can aid Shinichi to defeat BO at least  cover his secret, and I know that she would definitely end up going against BO herself for sure, and I know that if Shinichi know then he would take safety measures to keep her away from dangers. And someone mentioned that BO's not sparing her even if she doesnt know, so I don't see the point in keeping the secrets, and also no matter when she finds out, she would always forgive him coz its Ran, she would never use her karate on Shinichi, pls dont mind my previous comment:(

BTW, Hello everyone! I juz signed up, this is the my very first comment, am waiting eagerly for your reply! Hajimemashita and  nice to meet you!

[AnimeOtakuDrew 18]

@Antiyonder, I agree that the reveal could be done without putting Ran in danger, and even her acceptance of it; I just think that having it that way would be the most dramatically intense. I do, however, really like the idea of Ran doing some investigating of her own leading up to the discovery. Perhaps she does her investigating, has it completely figured out, right down to the Black Organization even, but it isn't confirmed yet, then the some member of the Organization notices her investigating and thinks the BO is her target and goes after her. This could then leads to a situation such as I described, where either saving Ran will confirm what her investigation found and reveal his identity to her, or revealing his identity to her will save her life. I like the idea of combining both of those: Ran's detective work AND the dramatically intense saving Ran by revealing himself. Oh, and just by the way, I am now up to episode 640 of the anime series (going much slower in the manga; only on chapter 291).

 

@Ayuna Yume, thanks, I'm glad you like my idea. I might work it into a fanfic of my own (though the one I am currently working on is a Ayumi/Conan fic, so it will be a different one). If I do so, I will make sure to post a link to it on this topic (if you're interested in the Ayumi/Conan series I'm starting, keep an eye on the "Conan x Ayumi" topic as I will post links there once I get the first chapter finished, which I will probably do around the time I catch up with the anime).

[Antiyonder 10]

[quote=AnimeOtakuDrew]I agree that the reveal could be done without putting Ran in danger, and even her acceptance of it; I just think that having it that way would be the most dramatically intense. I do, however, really like the idea of Ran doing some investigating of her own leading up to the discovery. Perhaps she does her investigating, has it completely figured out, right down to the Black Organization even, but it isn't confirmed yet, then the some member of the Organization notices her investigating and thinks the BO is her target and goes after her. This could then leads to a situation such as I described, where either saving Ran will confirm what her investigation found and reveal his identity to her, or revealing his identity to her will save her life. I like the idea of combining both of those: Ran's detective work AND the dramatically intense saving Ran by revealing himself.[/quote]

 

It certainly is dramatically intense, though I think the better course of drama would be a two fold development for Conan.  Namely once Ran is brought into the fold, things should rightfully be uneasy for both of them.  Not just because Ran is now a potential target for sure, but she still has to cope with the fact that someone she loves has been.  As such Conan has to also realize that for all of the danger that the Organization may pose, he has the potential to cause Ran more emotional hurt through his actions than they can with their physical threats.

 

And of course, Ran being in on the secret means that she could potentially be a big help in some cases whether filler based or Organization related ones.  During which, Conan also has to accept that the person he underestimated most is in some respects his best ally.

 

Basically what I'm getting at is that sometimes the best drama comes not from dealing with the bad guys, but rather the hero having to acknowledge and to overcome their own unsavory traits.  After all, fighting a criminal is relatively easy for Shinichi, whereas admitting to imperfection is arguably his biggest flaw.

 

And aside from Ran needing more to do in the overall plot, Conan definitely need such a wake up call.  Especially when his initial philosophy is "There is only one truth".

 

Quote

 

Oh, and just by the way, I am now up to episode 640 of the anime series (going much slower in the manga; only on chapter 291).

 

Cool.  As a bit of an advice, if you have Netflix or at least you have a friend or family member who lets you use their account, episodes 748-799 is available for viewing with subtitles.  Additionally, Crunchyroll also has some of those episodes, plus 800-829.  830 is available as well, but only for paid subscribers, but as with all episodes on the site it seems, it will be available for free viewing in 3 days.

 

As such when you get to those episodes I suggest you view them in that manner if the option is available.  Especially as more views would possibly encourage them to add more Detective Conan for legal viewing.

 

[quote=Ayuna Yume] And someone mentioned that BO's not sparing her even if she doesnt know, so I don't see the point in keeping the secrets, and also no matter when she finds out, she would always forgive him coz its Ran, she would never use her karate on Shinichi, pls dont mind my previous comment:( [/quote]

 

Plus I think for all of the times that Ran has displayed less flattering traits like superstition, that shouldn't be used as a reason to dismiss the possibility that she is capable of holding her only or displaying strength and intelligence when it matters.

 

1. For one thing, it's not like Shinichi/Conan is any better.  Take a couple of old cases:

- Ayumi-chan Kidnapping Case: Mistook a couple of actors for kidnappers.

- Conan Edogawa Kidnapping Case: Didn't pick up on the clues that his parents were punking him.

 

True, those were more plausible fears rather than say believing that Dracula and the legion of the undead are planning to invade Tokyo, but nonetheless Shinichi is suppose to be smarter than not only the average teen, but practically the entirety of the police force.

 

And a major reason he's in his predicament is due to him overestimating himself and being outsmarted by a long haired main in dark clothing holding a pipe.

 

Now some of you might be thinking, "but Ran tends to maintain her flaw while those mistakes you cited were from early on in the series".  Well, in Volume 49 (Episode 425), Conan forgot to remove some chewing gum with a tracer from Hidemi's residence which resulted in Gin nearly offing Kogoro.  And that would have likely been the outcome if Akai wasn't in the picture.

 

Plus, even later, he had to pretty much confess his feelings to Ran in the London arc, just because he didn't do a good enough job at avoiding her.

 

 

And in all actually, I do like Conan/Shinichi.  I may be more critical of him as of late, but my point is that any character can look dumb if you choose to focus only on the mistakes and low points.

 

Now for an alternative comment to follow...

 

2. Any problem Ran possesses really strikes me as Gosho unwilling to let her experience more growth and development despite giving pretty much other characters a chance to be better.

 

Even then I think Ran has shown more potential than given credit for.  To start off simple, like Shinichi she too has kept her own feelings a secret for a longtime and despite her friend being a very smart detective, he still didn't figure it out until she told him directly while he was Conan.

 

To bring up a previous comment I made, look at The Desperate Revival.  To bring it up I'll concede right now is a double-edged sword as Ran did let it slip that she was onto Conan's secret for the third time, start with the first part in Episode 188.

 

However, let's really look at that example.  Unlike the previous times she showed suspicion that Conan and Shinichi are one in the same, she didn't just happen to stumble onto the secret this time.  It's hinted in both the manga and anime that she held onto that suspicion from Volume 14/Episode 96 (The Cornered Famous Detective! Two Big Murder Cases).

 

In other words, she held onto the knowledge of Conan being Shinichi for 10 manga volumes or on the anime side, 91 episodes before Conan became aware of the fact.  And while Conan/Shinichi isn't infallible despite popular belief, it's still no small feat when someone, especially an average teenager can get the better of him or withhold important information from him.

 

As such, I imagine she could do even better if trusted to do so, especially with other people in on the secret being able to help her adjusting to such rather than working against her.

[Ayuna Yume 6]

On 9/8/2016 at 9:23 AM, Antiyonder said:

[quote=Ayuna Yume] And someone mentioned that BO's not sparing her even if she doesnt know, so I don't see the point in keeping the secrets, and also no matter when she finds out, she would always forgive him coz its Ran, she would never use her karate on Shinichi, pls dont mind my previous comment:( [/quote]

 

Plus I think for all of the times that Ran has displayed less flattering traits like superstition, that shouldn't be used as a reason to dismiss the possibility that she is capable of holding her only or displaying strength and intelligence when it matters.

 

 

Hm...I didn't mean that Ran is incapable of keeping secrets,not at all. In fact, I support the fact that she would be able to assist Shinichi/Conan if she is to know the truth. What I was saying is, if the BO ever gets to know Conan's true identity, of course they would eliminate everyone around him especially Ran & Kogoro,with whom he stayed all these while. Shinichi's main reason for not telling her is to protect her, not because he doesn't trust her. The thing is, whether he tells her or not, its not like BO's going to spare her should they know the truth. My point is, Ran is the one who often gets in his way in investigation and its not her fault at all. She's just overly caring and tries to act as his sister, worrying for his well-being and stuff .If she knows the truth, not only she would never get in his way in cases, she would also help cover his secrets as best as she could even though it would be so awkward. I'd much prefer she being the detective and finding out the truth herself or at least someone, the older Kudo couples (I said older because I ship Ran and Shinichi with all my heart and often call them husband and wife hihi ) or Heiji can tell her about it as it would be so awkward if Shinichi telling her himself. I don't want that to happen..I love Shinichi, I am his secret admirer hihi but I don't like him being secretive with his own wife.He didn't have a choice but Gosho-sensei have a lot of chanes to expose it to her. 

HE BETTER! XD

@AnimeOtakuDrew I'm really looking forward for your fanfic! Ganbatte!  and I haven't watch all the episodes either, going to watch ep 737...

Thanks for your info @Antiyonder, but currently I'm watching dc in a website, Ryuanime.com and I don't feel like changing...

[AnimeOtakuDrew 18]

1 hour ago, Ayuna Yume said:

@AnimeOtakuDrew I'm really looking forward for your fanfic! Ganbatte!  and I haven't watch all the episodes either, going to watch ep 737...

I'm probably going to wait until I catch up  (on the anime, not the manga) before I get started in earnest on my Ayumi/Conan fic, and I will most likely want to knock out at least four or five chapters of that before I do anything with my Shin/Ran ideas. But as I am  on episode 646 and have less than 200 to go, it shouldn't be extremely long before I start writing. A month at the most.

[ShinRanTrash 3]

On 5/1/2011 at 10:56 AM, Dkonan said:

I don't think ran will find it out before the series ends, her knowing would kind of have to change the way the series work now.

 

But you think too, it would change the status quo! It could be close to what it was, or go into total chaos. It could go in all kinds of directions! One side of me is dying for her to find out, but the other side says: Not yet..

[ShinRanTrash 3]

On 10/26/2011 at 5:07 PM, ZaydenRei said:

Ran vs Ai-chan.. what percentage do you think SHin-chan has to pick each and why ?

personally I think Ai-chan was introduced originally to get more info on the drug that shrank shin and it's creator. The love thing wasn't introduced til later .

As far as who kudo ends up with: I'm more for Ran than Ai-chan, just because Ran has had to put up with him more.

Although, if Ran found out about what happened to Kudo: I would understand him not being returned to a teen as long as Ai-chan got him.

Speaking of Ai-chan: which of the other detective boys do you think will get her? who will ayumi get?

I know it's a very late reply but here's my answer. The shipping shouldn't really change. Sure Haibara's crush is cute, but the series has developed in Shinichi and Ran's favor. It would be a huge disappointment to a lot of fans to build their relationship pretty well through the series and then just end up with someone else. 

[ShinRanTrash 3]

On 11/20/2013 at 3:58 AM, j.v233 said:

Personally i think Ran has doubted about Conan's secret recently, but she chooses not to ask because she knows he will find a way to deny like many times before. She understands he has a reason to hide his identity due to some case's problem. Plus, Ran also need to find more evidences before jumping to conclusion.

Remember the case about Kazuha's charm, Ran remembered Conan was the one kept Heji's charm, not Shinichi. Although Kazuha said Shinichi might borrowed the charm before and Ran agree but there was still something on her face that confused me.

Ran also said something to Conan which was about ADN helps to recognize people even they change their appearance.

There was an episode Ran was so surprised by Conan's action which make her ask him if he really is Conan and again, her face make me think she was not convinced by Conan's answer.

Finally, if you noticed, Ran usually blushes when she get close to Conan in the recent chapters ( when she put a bandage on Conan's arm; when she touched her forehead to his to check his temperature; when she ask who's the one he likes, Ayumi or Haibara) etc

Anyway, it's just my opinion, maybe i was too sensitive about these things

If anyone has any idea please share

 

I have also had these thoughts recently. I wondered why Gosho didn't draw out Ran's reaction to the fingerprints. She was there and Shinichi himself said the fingerprint was the evidence Heiji was referring to. When did Shinichi touch Heiji's charm?(As Conan of course. And Ran was still secretly suspicious at that time) Why did Ran not question about it further? Did she forget the time when Conan had the charm and almost got fatally stabbed? The time hasn't passed much(only half a year in the total story).Was he simply not wanting to touch that subject to hide the fact that Ran's suspicions could very well be enough to convince herself that she was right all along? Makes you think that maybe she really does know and is really good at keeping it buried enough Conan/Shinichi doesn't catch on.

[detectiveRJB 15]

I hope is last episode.

[AnimeOtakuDrew 18]

I will be really disappointed if Ran doesn't find out until the final episode. I want to see Aoyama-sensei explore the whole new dynamic that would be created by Ran learning the truth before Conan is cured. That deserves a full story arc unto itself.

[detectiveRJB 15]

On 1/27/2017 at 1:44 AM, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

I will be really disappointed if Ran doesn't find out until the final episode. I want to see Aoyama-sensei explore the whole new dynamic that would be created by Ran learning the truth before Conan is cured. That deserves a full story arc unto itself.

If Ran find out conan is shinichi news arc and I'm fun is Conan x Ai but Ran will fine out Ai have a crush on him. Circle around to I say is ran favorite to win shinichi heart but shiho is second favorite to win his heart. Ran best chance to win heart his  is not find out conan is shinichi and Ran not find out Ai Haibana is other take pill aptx 4896

[Antiyonder 10]

On 1/26/2017 at 10:44 PM, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

I will be really disappointed if Ran doesn't find out until the final episode. I want to see Aoyama-sensei explore the whole new dynamic that would be created by Ran learning the truth before Conan is cured. That deserves a full story arc unto itself.

 

Plus it would in my opinion be hard to view the relationship in a healthy light if he waited until the end.  I mean it's Ran's right to forgive him and forgiveness is a good thing, but it shouldn't be given out like pennies or candy

 

Even good people need to face the consequences of their actions in order to be motivated to improve.

 

 

Additionally?  Well the whole problem with the status quo isn't that Conan and company fear the possible outcomes of telling Ran but rather they flat out believe that telling her is a definite suicide.

 

That said one moment that would be a must is Conan, Agasa, Ai and possibly Heiji reflecting on recent developments, including how Ran's been a big help in the long run.  Said moment would include Heiji stating something along the lines of "So why were we afraid to let her in on the secret again?  I mean you'd think we were part of a 20 year old comic that dreads the concept of change.".

[AnimeOtakuDrew 18]

On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 5:10 AM, Antiyonder said:

 

Plus it would in my opinion be hard to view the relationship in a healthy light if he waited until the end.  I mean it's Ran's right to forgive him and forgiveness is a good thing, but it shouldn't be given out like pennies or candy

I personally believe that forgiveness should be given freely, but trust and respect must be earned. For that reason, I don't have a problem with the thought of Ran immediately forgiving Shinichi for deceiving her. I do, however, think he should have to earn back her trust and respect, which is why there needs to be AT LEAST one full story arc following the revelation, during which he can strive to re-earn her respect and trust.

On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 5:10 AM, Antiyonder said:

Even good people need to face the consequences of their actions in order to be motivated to improve.

Precisely.

On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 5:10 AM, Antiyonder said:

Additionally?  Well the whole problem with the status quo isn't that Conan and company fear the possible outcomes of telling Ran but rather they flat out believe that telling her is a definite suicide.

Actually, I think it is more that they're afraid the knowledge will put her in danger, not themselves.

On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 5:10 AM, Antiyonder said:

That said one moment that would be a must is Conan, Agasa, Ai and possibly Heiji reflecting on recent developments, including how Ran's been a big help in the long run.  

Actually, Hattori is the most vocal proponent stating that Conan SHOULD tell Ran. He only keeps the secret because Conan insists on it. He's always pushing for Conan to reveal the truth to Ran.

On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 5:10 AM, Antiyonder said:

Said moment would include Heiji stating something along the lines of "So why were we afraid to let her in on the secret again?  I mean you'd think we were part of a 20 year old comic that dreads the concept of change.".

That would be funny.

[Antiyonder 10]

11 hours ago, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

I personally believe that forgiveness should be given freely, but trust and respect must be earned. For that reason, I don't have a problem with the thought of Ran immediately forgiving Shinichi for deceiving her. I do, however, think he should have to earn back her trust and respect, which is why there needs to be AT LEAST one full story arc following the revelation, during which he can strive to re-earn her respect and trust.

Fair enough I suppose, though the sad thing is given Gosho's handling so far of things I fell even just one post finale arc wouldn't do justice to a story that in-universe may be under a year, but took decades to budge on.

 

"Actually, I think it is more that they're afraid the knowledge will put her in danger, not themselves."

 

Either way the problem still applies.  Namely that aside from the Desperate Revival (where Haibara gives Conan 3 choices on how to deal with Ran), the three seem to be 100% sure that Ran finding out will definitely cause problems rather than humoring the possibility that it would be fine to let her in.

 

Ironically enough, there's another reason I like Funvince's Mystery of Conan Edogawa fanfic.  In contrast to most "Ran finding out Conan's id" he doesn't try to hide the fact that Conan's actions aren't really quite as noble as the canon narrative tries to pass it off.

 

Yet, that fic actually implements more substantial reason to keep her in the dark beyond "she's a china doll that needs protection":

 

1. Ironically it wouldn't be Ran that Conan is untrusting of, but rather he doesn't trust himself to keep up the act properly when he's around his friend and is more inclined to let his guard down entirely.

 

2. Lets say that Ran is brought into the fold and doesn't get plugged because of it.  That means she gets to help keep the secret now.  In other words, there are going to be times where she may have to make the decision to lie to those she cares about when they may potentially come onto Conan's secret (like say Kogoro).  And really something like this really would be good for numerous reasons:

 

- Giving Ran something to do of course.

- While mind you I'm still on the fence of Ran forgiving Conan from the get go, I feel a situation like this would help it to feel more understandable.

- It also gives a nice duality to Shinichi and Ran's development.  One has to learn that secrets can cause more harm sometimes than help, while the other has to work on committing herself a little more towards secrecy.  But sadly, I think such an idea is a little too nuanced for Gosho to consider.

 

" Actually, Hattori is the most vocal proponent stating that Conan SHOULD tell Ran. He only keeps the secret because Conan insists on it. He's always pushing for Conan to reveal the truth to Ran. "

 

Of course, and that's why I would assign the quote to him.  I mean I still feel that even if Ran proves herself to be a great ally, Conan, Ai and Agasa would still try to play it as their previous attempt at secrecy as a good choice with Heiji getting to point out how stupid it was in the end.

[AnimeOtakuDrew 18]

I agree that letting Ran find out the truth would be good for the story. I absolutely agree that the reasons given by Asada and Haibara for not telling her are wearing extremely thin at this point. In the beginning, when Agasa first suggested that he should keep it secret from everyone, the reasoning was sound, but with all the people who have learned the truth throughout the course of the series and the fact that not a single one of them has been put in danger because of that knowledge, it strains believability that even Asada and Haibara still think knowing would endanger Ran. I find it more likely that their reasons have evolved over time. Haibara is obviously a manipulator who draws some strange delight from getting people to do what she wants rather than what they want or need to do. On top of that, there is the possibility that she has developed her own feelings for Shinichi over time, and she realizes that Ran learning the truth would ultimately being Ran and Shinichi closer together; so in addition to the pleasure she draws from coercing Conan to keep Ran in the dark, I think a part of it, though she would never admit it (probably not even to herself), is that she doesn't want him to get closer to Ran. As for Agasa, I can't help but wonder if the knowledge that he is one of the few main players that is in on the secret gives him some sense of power or importance. I mean, before the whole ordeal started, he was pretty much just a washed up failed inventor. He was Doc Brown to Shinichi's Marty. A crackpot that nobody gavemuch creedence to. But now, he has become one of the most important people in Conan's life; any time Conan faces a new problem, it is Agasa who he turns to for some gadget that can provide a solution. Because of what happened to Shinichi, Agasa is now important. But if Ran were to discover the truth, that might infringe upon Agasa's importance. Ran is a fairly smart girl, and has skills of her own. If Conan were able to turn to her in a time of need, he wouldn't need Agasa as much. A perfect example is the kick power enhancing shoes. Agasa developed these to compensate for the lack of strength Conan had in his child's body; but if Conan had filled Ran in on the truth, he wouldn't need this, instead he and Ran would act as a team and she could use her martial arts skill to take down opponents. So Agasa might just have some kind of job security and/or self worth issues that are assuaged by his importance to Conan, and he doesn't want to give that up. Now look at Hattori; a very open and honest person. Living so far away and interacting only infrequently with Conan and the others, he doesn't stand to lose anything if Ran learns the truth, and he gains the knowledge that Conan will be able to get closer to Ran as a result of the revelation. He knows this secret is eating Conan, and he knows Ran is being torn apart missing Shinichi, and he realizes that an admission on Conan's part would solve both their problems. Unlike Agasa and Haibara, Hattori is genuinely concerned for and wants to unselfishly help his friends end their suffering, so he is continually pushing Conan to reveal the truth to Ran. That is how it comes across to me at least. What do you think? Either way, the status quo definitely needs to change. The unchanging dynamic of Conan being pushed to go to insane lengths so Ran won't learn the truth has long since grown stale. Especially if Aoyama-sensei wants to continue the series beyond the Rum Arc, he has to shake things up to revitalize it. There are not many ways this could be done, and both the most obvious and easiest to achieve would be having Ran learn the truth. Having the Rum Arc followed by a Revelation Arc would be a masterful play on Aoyama-sensei's part. He's just given us major insight into the Black Organization in the form of their second in command, but now a new threat rises, not from outside but from within! Ran is once more on the trail to the truth, and this time she can't be deterred! What happens when she finally reached that truth? Can Ran and Shinichi recover from it? Will she help shield him or put him in danger? Will her own life be at risk because of this forbidden knowledge? Giving us a full arc to explore all of those questions is the ONLY way Aoyama-sensei can give us fans a satisfying resolution to that aspect of the story, and it has to come before the Fall of the Black Organization Arc, because I just know Aoyama-sensei means to end the story with that. The revelation, if it is to be truly satisfying to the fans, cannot be relegated to a simple footnote after Conan has beat the Organization and turned back into Shinichi. It must me handled with care and finesse, and adequately explored as its own element of the story along with all the ramifications associated with it. For Aoyama-sensei to do anything less would be a disservice to the series and to all of the fans. At least, that's how I see it.

 

(By the way, if anyone on here secretly knows Aoyama-sensei, please forward this post to him, or at least that last part suggesting that the next story arc be the Revelation Arc. I think he needs to see that.)

[Antiyonder 10]

On 2/27/2017 at 6:22 PM, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

I agree that letting Ran find out the truth would be good for the story. I absolutely agree that the reasons given by Asada and Haibara for not telling her are wearing extremely thin at this point. In the beginning, when Agasa first suggested that he should keep it secret from everyone, the reasoning was sound, but with all the people who have learned the truth throughout the course of the series and the fact that not a single one of them has been put in danger because of that knowledge, it strains believability that even Asada and Haibara still think knowing would endanger Ran. I find it more likely that their reasons have evolved over time.

 

Haibara is obviously a manipulator who draws some strange delight from getting people to do what she wants rather than what they want or need to do. On top of that, there is the possibility that she has developed her own feelings for Shinichi over time, and she realizes that Ran learning the truth would ultimately being Ran and Shinichi closer together; so in addition to the pleasure she draws from coercing Conan to keep Ran in the dark, I think a part of it, though she would never admit it (probably not even to herself), is that she doesn't want him to get closer to Ran.

 

As for Agasa, I can't help but wonder if the knowledge that he is one of the few main players that is in on the secret gives him some sense of power or importance. I mean, before the whole ordeal started, he was pretty much just a washed up failed inventor. He was Doc Brown to Shinichi's Marty. A crackpot that nobody gavemuch creedence to. But now, he has become one of the most important people in Conan's life; any time Conan faces a new problem, it is Agasa who he turns to for some gadget that can provide a solution. Because of what happened to Shinichi, Agasa is now important. But if Ran were to discover the truth, that might infringe upon Agasa's importance. Ran is a fairly smart girl, and has skills of her own. If Conan were able to turn to her in a time of need, he wouldn't need Agasa as much. A perfect example is the kick power enhancing shoes. Agasa developed these to compensate for the lack of strength Conan had in his child's body; but if Conan had filled Ran in on the truth, he wouldn't need this, instead he and Ran would act as a team and she could use her martial arts skill to take down opponents. So Agasa might just have some kind of job security and/or self worth issues that are assuaged by his importance to Conan, and he doesn't want to give that up.

 

Yet more character/story potential that would come about with change.  It just further demonstrates that characterization can make for more padding fodder than being a series killer.

[DetectiveKid4869 0]

• Its possible that Ran actually knows Conan is Shinichi, and is simply hiding it.

"The reasoning behind this is that Ran should know that the Fingerprint evidence is Ironclad, meaning Conan HAS to be Shinichi, and in the Cold Case episode, where Conan should have phrased it as "Shinichi's father" instead of Dad, as anyone reading an email from someone else that was sent to them out loud to someone else would normally do. Another piece of evidence is when Ran talked to Conan about giving him her blood while helping Eisuke out to find his birth records. She brings it up, yet does not question how she knew Conan's blood type, or why Conan never questioned it himself. Additionally, back on the Cold Case file, she stops him while reading the email, and while she does not tell him out loud, the images we see imply she recognizes him as Shinichi, because instead of showing the adult Shinichi, we see child Shinichi. She likely then did this to stop him from revealing this in front of Sonoko and Sera, having him quickly make up an excuse in front of both of them so they don't get clued in. When you piece these three moments together, it is reasonable to conclude she not only knows, but is protecting, Conan/Shinichi's identity consciously, though its highly doubtful she knows why.

She can probably conclude though her father cannot be trusted with the truth."

 

Found this on Ran's profile in Fan Theories tab. Any thoughts about this? 

[AnimeOtakuDrew 18]

I don't believe she's ever really given up on her suspicion that Conan is Shinichi, but I do think that Conan has cast enough doubt that she's not 100% certain. However, his arguments have gotten weaker each time she brings it up, so I imagine she's probably growing fairly confident in her suspicion again. I still hope we'll get the revelation in chapter 1000 or 1001. It would be a good turning point.

[brycec 0]

I do not really see Ran figuring out the truth until much later.

 

While she is pretty smart and realized the connection more than once, everything has basically been a coincidence, but things that we consider "solid proof" is nothing more than circumstantial evidence and DNA and fingerprint tests are not as accurate as they seem to be in fiction.

 

If anything, it would just be a repeat of episodes 96 and 7, unless Ran becomes important to the plot.

[AnimeOtakuDrew 18]

12 hours ago, brycec said:

I do not really see Ran figuring out the truth until much later.

 

While she is pretty smart and realized the connection more than once, everything has basically been a coincidence, but things that we consider "solid proof" is nothing more than circumstantial evidence and DNA and fingerprint tests are not as accurate as they seem to be in fiction.

Okay, I'm not sure what sources you've been reading, but they are wrong. Fingerprint and DNA evidence is extremely accurate. That is why they are admissible evidence in court. Even if all that can be found is hair or fingernails, the mitochondrial DNA can be tested and will result in a match to the mother or a sibling as well as the person it came from. As for blood or tissue DNA, the only way that would match someone other than the person it came from is if they had an identical twin. Regarding fingerprints, I'm fairly certain that even identical twins have different fingerprints. Ran was deterred from the fingerprint evidence when she was told that Shinichi had also held the item. As far as I remember, she has not gotten a DNA comparison yet (mitochondrial or blood). If she did so, it would be much harder for Conan to explain away. If it was mitochondrial DNA, he could revise his cover story and say he is Yukiko's child from an affair seven years earlier, but if the DNA was from blood or tissue, he's caught as there is no way for identical twins to be born ten years apart. I believe what you were thinking of is polygraph or "lie detector tests." The accuracy of polygraph has been under question for many years, and they are not admissible evidence in court. I myself have taken one and failed on my own name! If Ran were somehow able to convince Conan to submit to a polygraph and he failed, he could then cite the inaccuracy of the test and probably give enough specific examples to once again result in Ran doubting herself. DNA and fingerprints, however, are ironclad evidence as long as there is no error in the collection process or handling of the evidence.

12 hours ago, brycec said:

If anything, it would just be a repeat of episodes 96 and 7, unless Ran becomes important to the plot.

I think Ran becoming important to the plot is what we want! At present, she usually has no more importance than the members of Shonen Tantei, or Sonoko, or Kaito Kid. She's a glorified background character. Usually. There are times when she is central to the plot, but not most of the time. Aoyama-sensei has made it abundantly clear that Shinichi is going to end up with Ran at the end. We want our hero to end up with a character of significance, not the perpetual damsel-in-distress, not the "you're Shinichi, but you can lie and convince me you're not and it will be fine" cliche, and not a background character who seldom contributes to the story. We want the match for our hero to be someone who he can trust and rely on; someone who has his back in a crisis; someone who helps him with all of their abilities without holding back. So yes, Ran finding out the truth WOULD mean she becomes more important to the story, but that would be a good thing!

[brycec 0]

1 hour ago, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

Okay, I'm not sure what sources you've been reading, but they are wrong. Fingerprint and DNA evidence is extremely accurate. That is why they are admissible evidence in court. Even if all that can be found is hair or fingernails, the mitochondrial DNA can be tested and will result in a match to the mother or a sibling as well as the person it came from. As for blood or tissue DNA, the only way that would match someone other than the person it came from is if they had an identical twin. Regarding fingerprints, I'm fairly certain that even identical twins have different fingerprints. Ran was deterred from the fingerprint evidence when she was told that Shinichi had also held the item. As far as I remember, she has not gotten a DNA comparison yet (mitochondrial or blood). If she did so, it would be much harder for Conan to explain away. If it was mitochondrial DNA, he could revise his cover story and say he is Yukiko's child from an affair seven years earlier, but if the DNA was from blood or tissue, he's caught as there is no way for identical twins to be born ten years apart. I believe what you were thinking of is polygraph or "lie detector tests." The accuracy of polygraph has been under question for many years, and they are not admissible evidence in court. I myself have taken one and failed on my own name! If Ran were somehow able to convince Conan to submit to a polygraph and he failed, he could then cite the inaccuracy of the test and probably give enough specific examples to once again result in Ran doubting herself. DNA and fingerprints, however, are ironclad evidence as long as there is no error in the collection process or handling of the evidence.

 

Nothing is ever 100%, and you are correct that is accurate enough to be used in court, but you can get matches to other people, as found on this page from the Genetic Science Learning Center on University of Utah's domain.

 

It does confirm what you say a bit, but do not forget that we never really see anybody actually testing things other than fingerprints too often in the series, and even if things are handled properly, because of the obvious human error that exists everything.

 

Secondly, according to a PDF talking about direct and circumstantial evidence, which was originally on the Massachusetts' government website back in 2013, it is up to people to infer that the statement provided was the truth.

 

True, it does mark down the advantages and disadvantages of utilizing each kind of evidence, but direct evidence is out there saying that the present scenario is the truth, and circumstantial evidence, such as DNA and fingerprint evidence, must be pieced together so that the statement seems clearly obvious.

 

Also, the fingerprint might be of relatively poor quality or hard to get, which may prove utilizing fingerprints troublesome.

 

For now, I will concede to you, since this will only become more heated if it continues.

 

1 hour ago, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

I think Ran becoming important to the plot is what we want! At present, she usually has no more importance than the members of Shonen Tantei, or Sonoko, or Kaito Kid. She's a glorified background character. Usually. There are times when she is central to the plot, but not most of the time. Aoyama-sensei has made it abundantly clear that Shinichi is going to end up with Ran at the end. We want our hero to end up with a character of significance, not the perpetual damsel-in-distress, not the "you're Shinichi, but you can lie and convince me you're not and it will be fine" cliche, and not a background character who seldom contributes to the story. We want the match for our hero to be someone who he can trust and rely on; someone who has his back in a crisis; someone who helps him with all of their abilities without holding back. So yes, Ran finding out the truth WOULD mean she becomes more important to the story, but that would be a good thing!

 

This part I can certainly agree with you on this part, and I would be a little disappointed if she does not become important, but what I meant was that she somehow becomes directly involved in the case, such as if Black Org was after her.