English Language Thread

[Amaranth 52]

I have a question.

My professor said that the sentence "That was her on the phone a while ago" is grammatically wrong and that "her" should be replaced with "she" which is in the nominative case. Well, never in my life have I read or heard such a sentence as "That was she on the phone." Why is that so?

[tengaku squared 291]

Why is that so?

It's because we are so used to using the incorrect form, it's now the norm. If you ever read a sentence like that, you'd probably mark it as awkward, since you haven't heard or seen a sentence like that.

[Anti-APTX4869 181]

I have a question.

My professor said that the sentence "That was her on the phone a while ago" is grammatically wrong and that "her" should be replaced with "she" which is in the nominative case. Well, never in my life have I read or heard such a sentence as "That was she on the phone." Why is that so?

I agree with Mohorovicic.

but if you have read some really old books, their grammar sounds funny, but it's the correct form.

[conankoibito 21]

waaaaah!!!!!!!!!! it's not true,well maybe 2nd language is hard enough to learn,but you should remember how to use it while 3rd is important too but you should remember how 2nd language was very important.And it seems,how you talk is how you live.

[Kiel95 86]

It's been so long since I've been on and there's been so much grammar that I'm getting confused (and English is my first language)!

I think the real problem is that there are many ways to phrase sentences. The English language has an extensive vocabulary for us to dip into when looking for a word to have a specific meaning. We have a great deal of words which are synonyms, but we also have a great deal of phrases which can be shortened into one word. That's why it becomes so confusing. Sometimes you all mention two sentences and are confused which is correct. It is a complete possibility that both are. I'll write two sentences for example:

1) Timmy was running around and tripped.

2) Because Timmy was running around, he tripped.

Of course they typically are meant for different situations, they can sometimes be substituted out.

Another reason English is so confusing is because of the fact that no one really uses proper grammar.

Proper grammar may seem to formal at times so we feel more comfortable using improper grammar and slang. In books where you'd expect to see proper grammar, there's a good chance you won't. As a writer and an avid reader, it's quite obvious that many books do not follow proper grammatical structures. My stories do not. It's because if they did, the flow would be disrupted, and my style would cease to exist. Most writers have their own style, and that style typically breaks grammatical rules here and there, but that's normal. If we couldn't break the rules it'd be as if we're trying to read older books where the way of speaking is so old and unused, we get confused as to what is actually going on.

ok... after talking for a while i need to stop before i hurt my brain... i can almost guarantee one or two of my sentences are not grammatically correct, but I can't be sure they are... why you may ask? Well for one, when learning english as a second language, you go into more detail about grammar, and that's the way it is when learning any language other than your first... but here in america, though i went to one of the best middle schools, not once did we ever hear words like nominative, genitive, dative, etc. I learned those sorts of words through learning LATIN. There's a distinct difference between learning english as a first language, and learning it as a second. Yes, for being graded in school, learning it as a second language will actually benefit you more, but learning it as a first will enable you to sound more natural.

[hopes 237]

English is the most difficult language in the world.

We tend to butcher it a lot.

[Erza Scarlet 104]

English is the most difficult language in the world.

We tend to butcher it a lot.

I agree. even if a lot of people consider it the "universal language", others still get confused with using English. =/ gotta blame the Tower of Babel. XD

[Annebellification 0]

I am not sure but I don't think that "better your English" is a correct statement maybe "became better in English" would make more sense.

"better your English" makes perfect sense. The word "better" can also be used as a verb, which would mean "to improve."

[A L 217]

I'm ashamed English is my second language and I speak it better than my native tongue. How do you use 'former' and 'latter'?

[Valkyrie 72]

I'm ashamed English is my second language and I speak it better than my native tongue. How do you use 'former' and 'latter'?

Firstly, you have nothing to be ashamed of. English is my secong language and I speak it better than Malay! But I speaak better English though.

Former means the first while latter means the second. This is very important to know.

You can use 'former' and 'latter' like this:

I like chocolate and yoghurt but I prefer the latter.

Former and latter can be used whenever there are two subjects and you wish to refer to one of them.

[A L 217]

I use it like:

Trigonometry is a branch of maths. The former is concerned with right angled triangles.

Is it correct?

[Valkyrie 72]

I use it like:

Trigonometry is a branch of maths. The former is concerned with right angled triangles.

Is it correct?

Wrong. You are only stating on subject with an explanation. 'Trigonometry' is the subject while 'branch of maths' is the explanation. Your second sentence is wrong as there is no second subject that could be referred to anyway. The tense for 'concerned' is wrong as well. 'Concerned' is past tense.

Your second sentence should be:

It is concerning with right-angle triangles.

[A L 217]

Wrong. You are only stating on subject with an explanation. 'Trigonometry' is the subject while 'branch of maths' is the explanation. Your second sentence is wrong as there is no second subject that could be referred to anyway. The tense for 'concerned' is wrong as well. 'Concerned' is past tense.

Your second sentence should be:

It is concerning with right-angle triangles.

The people who write science have terrible grammar.

[Valkyrie 72]

The people who write science have terrible grammar.

Not true. You are stereotyping again. Din writes Science and he have good grammar. So do I.

[A L 217]

Not true. You are stereotyping again. Din writes Science and he have good grammar. So do I.

Oh not that! I meant the people who write the books! science usually ignores grammar rulings. And shouldn't it be "has" instead of "have"? This is confusing

[Valkyrie 72]

Oh not that! I meant the people who write the books! science usually ignores grammar rulings. And shouldn't it be "has" instead of "have"? This is confusing

You're right! I don't usually check my grammar when talking informally. No point.

And Science books usually ignore grammar but it's not true necessarily true.

[HalfAngel 28]

Actually, Ed0gawa was correct when he used 'is concerned'. While "concerned" is past tense, "is concerned" is present tense.

Valkyrie's sentence is incorrect, however, although I'm struggling to explain why ^^' Probably because I should be asleep right now. What I can tell you is that just because you are talking about something in the present, doesn't mean that absolutely everything in the sentence must be in present tense.

"Right-angled triangle" always remains that way, no matter what tense the rest of the sentence is in. "Right-angled" is the description of the triangle.

Eg.

Sarah crouched down to pick up the folded piece of paper.

This sentence is being told in past tense, so why did I not write "picked up"?

If we break this sentence down a little bit, it becomes:

1)Sarah crouched down

2)to pick up

3)the folded piece of paper.

The verb in phrase 1 is the one that describes what the subject, Sara, is doing. This verb tells us what tense the sentence is in.

The verb in phrase 2 describes what Sara is doing to the piece of paper in phrase 3.

The verb in phrase 3 is merely describing the piece of paper.

You could also change the sentence around to make it present tense or future tense.

Sarah crouches down to pick up the folded piece of paper.

Sarah will crouch down to pick up the folded piece of paper.

[MadelineLime 45]

I have a question.

My professor said that the sentence "That was her on the phone a while ago" is grammatically wrong and that "her" should be replaced with "she" which is in the nominative case. Well, never in my life have I read or heard such a sentence as "That was she on the phone." Why is that so?

You could avoid the whole thing by saying, "she was on the phone a while ago." In whatever context it would be used in conversation, e.g.: "where is Sandra?" "She was on the phone a while ago," the context is completely implied and you can avoid using the "that was..." portion. Or even use "that earlier phone call was Sandra,"/"that phone call earlier was Sandra."

Actually I don't believe the above is a run-on sentence. Here is my example:

John loves rebecca he is madly in love.

It's missing the proper punctuation. There are two different ideas incorrectly combined.

The correct way to write this would be:

John loves Rebecca. He is madly in love.

It's usually best to break the sentences down into two simpler sentences. Sure it's really simple and basic, but it's also the proper way to do it.

While it is made of different ideas, they are related and can stay as a single sentence. I make mistakes in proper English sometimes, as I had trouble memorizing grammar in school, but I am a native speaker. There are a few ways that you could use the run-on example in conversation, whether or not it's perfectly correct. (Sorry! I think these are correct, though! lol)

As stated previously, "John loves Rebecca. He is madly in love."

You could also use:

1. John loves Rebecca; he is madly in love.
   
2. John loves Rebecca... he is madly in love.
   
3. John loves Rebecca, he is madly in love.
   

Explanations:

1. I'm a huge fan of semi-colons, and feel they do not get enough love!
   
2. I am also a huge fan of ellipsis. However, most people use them incorrectly. An ellipsis has only three periods in it, and a fourth is uses to end a sentence. Examples: "blah blah blah...." blah blah blah...? "blah blah blah...!"
   
3. The comma might not be completely correct, but most native English speakers would not even notice. I am questioning it, but I'm not entirely sure.
   

While I'm on about ellipsis, I highly suggest reading the link I made to it. They have so many uses!

[A L 217]

Need info on Paragraph Writing.

[Wicky 11]

^When writing a paragraph, you must have at least three lines/sentences in the paragraph, but you can have up to about six/seven. You should leave 1/2 lines/sentences space inbeetween each paragraph. Or you can do this: // \\ at the beginning if you forget to leave a gap, as far as I know. Make any sense?

[A L 217]

^When writing a paragraph, you must have at least three lines/sentences in the paragraph, but you can have up to about six/seven. You should leave 1/2 lines/sentences space inbeetween each paragraph. Or you can do this: // \\ at the beginning if you forget to leave a gap, as far as I know. Make any sense?

not much, need to know about the content of sentences, and how it should be related.

[Sakila 88]

not much, need to know about the content of sentences, and how it should be related.

Hmm, like how the first sentence should introduce the topic or subtopic, the second three should support it and the third should wrap it up?

[snowflake 41]

Question: is it incorrect to use ellispses in formal writing? My teacher says so and I can't understand why. When are you not supposed to use them and how do you know?

[Nara-chan 38]

^It has a lot of uses, but these are the ones I know of:

A. It's used to indicate something has been removed (this is in publishing)

text [...]text

B. To indicate a stop in speech

"Umm...I...am Mary Anne....

You use 3 dots to indicate a pause that is not in the beginning of the sentence, and 4 dots if it is.

[tengaku squared 291]

You could also use:

• John loves Rebecca; he is madly in love.
• John loves Rebecca... he is madly in love.
• John loves Rebecca, he is madly in love.

Explanations:

• I'm a huge fan of semi-colons, and feel they do not get enough love!
• I am also a huge fan of ellipsis. However, most people use them incorrectly. An ellipsis has only three periods in it, and a fourth is uses to end a sentence. Examples: "blah blah blah...." blah blah blah...? "blah blah blah...!"
• The comma might not be completely correct, but most native English speakers would not even notice. I am questioning it, but I'm not entirely sure.

While I'm on about ellipsis, I highly suggest reading the link I made to it. They have so many uses!

The third one, which uses a comma to link two independent clauses, is a comma splice, and is a grammar no-no. Though most native English speakers won't notice, when reading a part with a comma splice it often looks a bit "choppy", I guess.

 

On the subject of ellipsis, I'm of the opinion that ellipsis weaken writing and makes it sound less sure. I really can't think of many places where I would use an ellipsis over the vastly superior semi-colon and the more specialized but still effective colon. However, I note that ellipsis can add a natural flow to a sentence that colons tend to break up, but not significantly; the only place where I would use this to my advantage is undoubtedly in character dialogue. Even then, the added flow that an ellipsis brings can also make the writing start to blob together and lack a coherent structure, which is a negative trait in its own right.

 

Question: is it incorrect to use ellispses in formal writing? My teacher says so and I can't understand why. When are you not supposed to use them and how do you know?

The link MadelineLime put up earlier puts it extremely well. In essence, the main use of ellipsis in formal writing is to denote that a quotation has changed. But please don't use ellipsis to cut out portions of a quote that are unfavorable to your point. That can be seen as warping the facts and that is a really bad thing.

 

As previously mentioned, I take a very conservative approach to using ellipsis, and especially in formal writing. I would advise not using ellipsis outside of quotes when possible.