Kaito kid is overated

[Akazora 293]

I personally think he's a bit overrated. The original MK series is fine, since it's mainly comedy, but when he's featured in DC... Bleh, I could do without it. Most of his cases aren't that great and I never look forward to them. The only cases that I look forward to are BO cases. Just my two cents.

[Balthazar Manfredie 226]

the only great case with him was the first one in DC, it was the black star case-Conan vs Kid

and ill add magic lovers murder case, cause that was his last good one to me

others are not that interesting nor a pleasure to watch in DC

[Akechi 1]

I have a sort of love-hate relationship with his character. Early on, I found him awesome beyond measure. Around Movie 3, he was a cooler character for me than Conan. Then, he became repetetive. Every single Kid episode was exactly the same. Warning followed by lame magic trick followed by Conan saves the treasure but Kid escapes. Soon, my favourite thing about him was that he often got hit in the face by Conan's football.

Right now, I rather like him because the Magic Kaito episodes are actually entertaining and are a breath of fresh air when compared to his usual DC antics.

He's definitely overrated, though. People seem to think he's the best character ever even though he's little more than comic relief. I'd like to see his serious face once in a while.

[KudoKun18 6]

^ Maybe if Aoyama can somehow involve him with Conan fighting against BO. :grin:

[Parkur 165]

Yes, Kid IS overrated, and in other breaking news, water is wet

I don't even think he's all that popular, it's just that his fans are louder and his fangirls are more irrational, ridiculous, and annoying than 99% of the general population

[tengaku squared 291]

Yes, Kid IS overrated, and in other breaking news, water is wet

I don't even think he's all that popular, it's just that his fans are louder and his fangirls are more irrational, ridiculous, and annoying than 99% of the general population

+1

[vawli 43]

No way!He is cool btu it does get anoying when people keep talking about him.

[Kyuu Nye 425]

Ok... here are my thoughts on this whole thing...

*sets up barricades for angry fangirls/boys*

Both Kaitou Kid and Kudo Shinichi are overrated. (they are practically the same character only opposite sides of the law)

There is a reason for this... THEY ARE BOTH PERFECT. They are both the main protagonists of Gosho Aoyama's works. Gosho made very few faults for each character (less so for Kudo... I mean... does he really have a debilitating flaw like Kaitou does?). They are both geniuses, can think much further ahead than their adversaries, can predict outcomes and trick their foes.

Allow me to run through this real quick for both, and then I'll explain why they are both overrated when compared to literature... (by quick I mean as quick as I can)

Lets start on topic with Kaitou Kid... He was the main protagonist of MK turned antagonist for DC. He was perfect in MK, so Gosho couldn't very well add in flaws, because he can't flesh them out (though he never did give the explanation for the fear of fish... perhaps one day). He is arrogant, a master of disguise, EXTREMELY intelligent (possibly more so than Kudo, and I'll explain why) and is a master of Magic. These things combine make him a very effective (and slightly boring thief after a while). He can memorize a lot of information very easily in a short period of time, including numbers, personal information, mannerisms, voice and building layouts. Basically he has an eidetic memory, something Kudo does not have. He can plan and even deduce slightly (though not as good as Kudo). He is shown to be extremely good at school without even thinking about it (aoko too for that matter).

When it comes to adversaries (and this is where it gets boring) Gosho does NOT want one of his original characters to lose. This includes against Kudo. He has a tragic back story, and though he is a criminal you are meant to empathize with him. He isn't out for monetary gain, he has his father's estate. That is why he returns all jewels he steals if it isn't the Pandora jewel. However Kudo can't lose either, so Kid gets away and Kudo ends up getting the jewel. (Again boring)(Also I think Gosho doesn't want either of his creations to lose)

Aside from fish (which no one seems to know about) he has no discernible flaws. This makes for very boring characters. His arrogance is his biggest flaw and that usually works out. Jii is a professional so he isn't much of a liability aside from age. And he doesn't have any other partners. The character he is based on is much more interesting in this respect, which is Arsene Lupin. Lupin has no experienced colleagues, and has to woo girls into helping. They are inexperienced and his care for them are usually his downfall. Women are his weakness. Since they are also an integral part to his thievery, it is BIG (so not like Aoko or fish, because those don't impact him as much as slightly inconvenience him). Kid also has no worth adversary other than Hakuba (who is never around) and Kudo who is now always around because they are melded together. Nakamori, the main force is not up to snuff. Even Lupin III has a better constant antagonist in the form of Zenigata. He is not incapable, and he often is able to corner Lupin III if not for the last minute intervention of Jigen, Fujiko or Goemon. Arsene Lupin has Ganimard who CONSTANTLY corners or captures Lupin only for him to trick his way out or escape by slipping cuffs or other method.

He is an uninteresting mary sue-esque character... Too perfect, not enough flaws and not interesting enough.

Now on to Kudo... HE IS THE EXACT SAME! Except swap out magic and eidetic memory for deductive ability and overall strange compilation of academic and scientific knowledge (oh yeah, and thanks to Agasa and his Mother that INCLUDES disguising, with the exception of mimicking dialect). He has no flaws except his arrogance (which should have killed him at least 3 times to my memory). Granted his arrogance is EXTREME, but still he has no worthy adversary other than the BO. They barely show up, so he basically has no one. And the BO he has the FBI backing him. They are a big adversary who can provide a challenge, but THEY ARE BARELY AROUND! Kudo has no other weakness other than his stature which isn't a weakness anymore thanks to Agasa's inventions. He can kick objects stronger than he probably was able to before, has tracking glasses, a skateboard that goes as fast as a car (he isn't yet old enough to get a license in Japan). Hell he seems to have overall less flaws than he did before. He only has three liabilities... And honestly if they follow him to the BO he should let them die... They'd deserve it, and so would he for getting them involved with such a dangerous case (and not being able to trick them into going elsewhere).

Again overall boring. Every single detective had flaws in the past. Sherlock had the same set-up, but the difference was that the mysteries often actually was able to test him (though Sherlock was an addict and slightly crazy). He was also limited because he often didn't have free reign from the police as they were always getting involved, often resenting him, where as Kudo is LOVED by the MPD (even as conan to a degree).

Now I know this is a family comic/show, but Gosho should have put more effort into making complex and believable characters. He has developed the cast around the main characters except for Kudo and Ran (of those who appear enough to develop). IT IS INFURIATING.

They are both overrated and have better counterparts in literature or other shows. They are not dynamic, interesting or even evolving. And unlike Holmes he does not have fantastic writing to back him (and some interesting peculiarities that Kudo does not). Gosho is good, but not SACD good.

Honestly what keeps me coming back to DC is the side characters, not the main (well that and the mysteries, which have their ups and downs. Some are fantastic other are dismal but you can't win them all). Usually its the characters that keeps me interested in a story for the most part (well it has to be a balance between good characters and good story). DC is the ONLY one where it is the side characters and mystery.

Thank you for reading this overly long post And I really hope I don't get flamed or attacked for it....

*reinforces barricades*

@Waka: They explained that Sharon Vineyard was better at mimicking voices than Yukiko was. Yukiko could adeptly change her voice, and make it sound different for characters, but not mimic another person entirely. Basically... Sharon can completely take on the identity of someone else, where as Yukiko can only create a new persona (which for the purposes of acting is all you need).

[Akechi 1]

Ok... here are my thoughts on this whole thing...

*sets up barricades for angry fangirls/boys*

Both Kaitou Kid and Kudo Shinichi are overrated. (they are practically the same character only opposite sides of the law)

There is a reason for this... THEY ARE BOTH PERFECT. They are both the main protagonists of Gosho Aoyama's works. Gosho made very few faults for each character (less so for Kudo... I mean... does he really have a debilitating flaw like Kaitou does?). They are both geniuses, can think much further ahead than their adversaries, can predict outcomes and trick their foes.

Allow me to run through this real quick for both, and then I'll explain why they are both overrated when compared to literature... (by quick I mean as quick as I can)

Lets start on topic with Kaitou Kid... He was the main protagonist of MK turned antagonist for DC. He was perfect in MK, so Gosho couldn't very well add in flaws, because he can't flesh them out (though he never did give the explanation for the fear of fish... perhaps one day). He is arrogant, a master of disguise, EXTREMELY intelligent (possibly more so than Kudo, and I'll explain why) and is a master of Magic. These things combine make him a very effective (and slightly boring thief after a while). He can memorize a lot of information very easily in a short period of time, including numbers, personal information, mannerisms, voice and building layouts. Basically he has an eidetic memory, something Kudo does not have. He can plan and even deduce slightly (though not as good as Kudo). He is shown to be extremely good at school without even thinking about it (aoko too for that matter).

When it comes to adversaries (and this is where it gets boring) Gosho does NOT want one of his original characters to lose. This includes against Kudo. He has a tragic back story, and though he is a criminal you are meant to empathize with him. He isn't out for monetary gain, he has his father's estate. That is why he returns all jewels he steals if it isn't the Pandora jewel. However Kudo can't lose either, so Kid gets away and Kudo ends up getting the jewel. (Again boring)(Also I think Gosho doesn't want either of his creations to lose)

Aside from fish (which no one seems to know about) he has no discernible flaws. This makes for very boring characters. His arrogance is his biggest flaw and that usually works out. Jii is a professional so he isn't much of a liability aside from age. And he doesn't have any other partners. The character he is based on is much more interesting in this respect, which is Arsene Lupin. Lupin has no experienced colleagues, and has to woo girls into helping. They are inexperienced and his care for them are usually his downfall. Women are his weakness. Since they are also an integral part to his thievery, it is BIG (so not like Aoko or fish, because those don't impact him as much as slightly inconvenience him). Kid also has no worth adversary other than Hakuba (who is never around) and Kudo who is now always around because they are melded together. Nakamori, the main force is not up to snuff. Even Lupin III has a better constant antagonist in the form of Zenigata. He is not incapable, and he often is able to corner Lupin III if not for the last minute intervention of Jigen, Fujiko or Goemon. Arsene Lupin has Ganimard who CONSTANTLY corners or captures Lupin only for him to trick his way out or escape by slipping cuffs or other method.

He is an uninteresting mary sue-esque character... Too perfect, not enough flaws and not interesting enough.

Now on to Kudo... HE IS THE EXACT SAME! Except swap out magic and eidetic memory for deductive ability and overall strange compilation of academic and scientific knowledge (oh yeah, and thanks to Agasa and his Mother that INCLUDES disguising, with the exception of mimicking dialect). He has no flaws except his arrogance (which should have killed him at least 3 times to my memory). Granted his arrogance is EXTREME, but still he has no worthy adversary other than the BO. They barely show up, so he basically has no one. And the BO he has the FBI backing him. They are a big adversary who can provide a challenge, but THEY ARE BARELY AROUND! Kudo has no other weakness other than his stature which isn't a weakness anymore thanks to Agasa's inventions. He can kick objects stronger than he probably was able to before, has tracking glasses, a skateboard that goes as fast as a car (he isn't yet old enough to get a license in Japan). Hell he seems to have overall less flaws than he did before. He only has three liabilities... And honestly if they follow him to the BO he should let them die... They'd deserve it, and so would he for getting them involved with such a dangerous case (and not being able to trick them into going elsewhere).

Again overall boring. Every single detective had flaws in the past. Sherlock had the same set-up, but the difference was that the mysteries often actually was able to test him (though Sherlock was an addict and slightly crazy). He was also limited because he often didn't have free reign from the police as they were always getting involved, often resenting him, where as Kudo is LOVED by the MPD (even as conan to a degree).

Now I know this is a family comic/show, but Gosho should have put more effort into making complex and believable characters. He has developed the cast around the main characters except for Kudo and Ran (of those who appear enough to develop). IT IS INFURIATING.

They are both overrated and have better counterparts in literature or other shows. They are not dynamic, interesting or even evolving. And unlike Holmes he does not have fantastic writing to back him (and some interesting peculiarities that Kudo does not). Gosho is good, but not SACD good.

Honestly what keeps me coming back to DC is the side characters, not the main (well that and the mysteries, which have their ups and downs. Some are fantastic other are dismal but you can't win them all). Usually its the characters that keeps me interested in a story for the most part (well it has to be a balance between good characters and good story). DC is the ONLY one where it is the side characters and mystery.

Thank you for reading this overly long post And I really hope I don't get flamed or attacked for it....

*reinforces barricades*

@Waka: They explained that Sharon Vineyard was better at mimicking voices than Yukiko was. Yukiko could adeptly change her voice, and make it sound different for characters, but not mimic another person entirely. Basically... Sharon can completely take on the identity of someone else, where as Yukiko can only create a new persona (which for the purposes of acting is all you need).

I rather agree with most of what you said.

I would say that Conan is less perfect than Shinichi, though. Although, as you mentioned, Conan is still rather accepted by the police force, it's more than a fair challenge for him to get involved in investigations, what with Megure getting annoyed and Kogoro throwing him around and all. It's harder investigating the crime scene for him than it was for Sherlock Holmes, whom you mentioned earlier, at least (unless that changes drastically post-Reichenbach Falls, which I haven't read). And, even if this is somewhat remedied by Agasa's gadgets, Conan still has several problems as a result of his size. I'd really say that Gosho manages to control his tendency to make perfect protagonists a fair bit with Conan, even if side-characters are way easier to relate to (three cheers for Haibara).

Also, I think that Kid in DC is far, far worse in this regard than Kid in Magic Kaito, being an antagonist. If you see his point of view, you get to see that his tricks are sometimes tough to pull off. In DC, however, you just see him doing everything perfectly. Having a perfect character with almost no real challenges is pretty much adding insult to injury.

May I make use of your barricades?

[CarpetCrawler 280]

I would hope you don't, I pretty much agreed with every single part of it.

I think that's why I'm not a huge fan of Gin like everyone else. He's the perfect villain. No one ever outsmarts him. That's fine and dandy and all every now and then, but even when the most abstract plan by Shinichi is presented to try and fool him, and he happens to figure it out completely... it just makes for really silly television to have the villain never be outsmarted and know every single way to escape from something unharmed. How often does Gin ever get in enough trouble that he needs to be helped out by other members of the Organization? Hell, what's the point of Vodka always hanging out with him? Gin is enough of DC's Jack Bauer with the way Gosho writes him, that he might as well work alone.

I think the problem is that Gosho can't end the series right now. It's making too much money and to do so would stop him from making it. There's a reason why the BO stories show up once every blue moon these days: he has barely any BO-related plot-lines left that he can try out. He HAS to drag them out, because if he doesn't, the story will end quicker than we think. Gosho WANTS the series to be nothing but "can you solve this mystery, readers?" every single week. He wants to end the BO stuff. It's just that he knows what his bread and butter is, and he knows why a good chunk of his readers read the series.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I would hope you don't, I pretty much agreed with every single part of it.

I think that's why I'm not a huge fan of Gin like everyone else. He's the perfect villain. No one ever outsmarts him.

He's had failures. Getting shot on the rooftop by Conan was a minor one, because he failed to consider Sherry had an assistant, which is the most likely rational explanation for how Sherry escaped the cell in the first place. From Gin's perspective, Vodka had to hold off the mysterious guy (Shinichi) because neither Org member had any idea of how many shots he had. Then of course there was Akai's hello in Org vs. FBI. Gin ran away from that fight. Akai's fake death is going to be a serious blunder on his part, regardless of who you think Akai is at the moment.

The Black Org as a whole has the exact opposite problem of the one you claim them to have. They get their arses handed to them most times they appear and basically Gosho has to work overtime to make them not appear weak. Black Org failures include: their bombs stopped, they lost their 10 billion yen, Sherry escapes and Gin and Vodka can't do anything about it because Gin has to take out Pisco who got caught, they don't get any data from Itakura's CD, Vermouth gets messed up and almost captured and Calvados commits suicide, the boss's number gets uncovered, their assassination gets thwarted, Kir gets captured, and Gin acquires some internal bleeding courtesy of Akai, their agent who finds Kir has to commit suicide, and Akai, Kir, and Conan basically completely manipulate them with their plan to return Rena and fake Akai's death.

You could complain the situations they get in always allow a somewhat dignified path of retreat that preserves some of their appearance of danger, but the truth is they fail. A lot.

I think the problem is that Gosho can't end the series right now. It's making too much money and to do so would stop him from making it. There's a reason why the BO stories show up once every blue moon these days: he has barely any BO-related plot-lines left that he can try out. He HAS to drag them out, because if he doesn't, the story will end quicker than we think. Gosho WANTS the series to be nothing but "can you solve this mystery, readers?" every single week. He wants to end the BO stuff. It's just that he knows what his bread and butter is, and he knows why a good chunk of his readers read the series.

I don't think money is the primary reason why Gosho is continuing. He is a well regarded writer; if he was truly burned out or out of ideas, he could write something else and still get a good contract. He said in an interview that it's especially hard to write the BO chapters. They are even more work because they are going to be microanalyzed by the readers too, so no mistakes or contradictions with prior or future material are acceptable. By dealing with the BO in chunks at a time (which naturally means they are going to be spaced out) rather than evenly spread, he is setting up the structure of the plot so that it is less likely to run into problems.

Dealing with the BO in chunks also means that he has more "free" cases that he doesn't have to force into the overarching plotline which gives him extra flexibility to use a greater variety of tricks and settings. Personally I like it when more of the weekly cases tie in with the greater plot, but I can understand why it is easier to write when you aren't forcing a case.

I agree that it's always been about the weekly cases from the start, not the BO; however saying that "He wants to end the BO stuff." makes no sense. It's the overarching plotline that ties together the series. Getting rid of it destroys the direction of the series: Conan defeating the guys who shrunk him so he can get his body back and return to the light with a better personality.

I think the root of the problem here is that plot cases have been a lot more spaced out in the Bourbon arc than they have been since the start of the Vermouth arc, and people don't like that.

[justwantanaccount 125]

To be fair to Shinichi/Conan, I think that Gosho knows that Shinichi/Conan is too perfect. ^^; In Sherry's Soliloquy (apparently Gosho himself writes these),

in the recent Family Restaurant case where Shinichi and Heiji had a face-off, Gosho referred to Shinichi as an arrogant kid and told Heiji to win, so . . . yeah. ^^; Since I didn't bother saving the images back then, I don't have direct evidence but back me up, but this blog refers to it.

I would blame the anime/movie staff for making Conan too perfect, imo.

EDIT: OOPS I mentioned some manga spoilers! Sorry!

[Kyuu Nye 425]

To be fair to Shinichi/Conan, I think that Gosho knows that Shinichi/Conan is too perfect. ^^; In Sherry's Soliloquy (apparently Gosho himself writes these),

in the recent Family Restaurant case where Shinichi and Heiji had a face-off, Gosho referred to Shinichi as an arrogant kid and told Heiji to win, so . . . yeah. ^^; Since I didn't bother saving the images back then, I don't have direct evidence but back me up, but this blog refers to it.

I would blame the anime/movie staff for making Conan too perfect, imo.

Oh please don't get me started on Movies... I avoided that topic... And the reason is the phrase "My father taught me how to [insert skill here] in Hawaii." You know what? I want to go to Hawaii and magically learn how to masterfully fire a gun (granted I know how already), fly a plane, drive a boat and whatever other random skill Conan uses to save the day. What annoys me is that in M8 when he flies the plane it doesn't even make sense. Learning how to fly a small passenger plane is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from flying a commercial jet. Though the Mythbusters did manage to prove that proper instruction can allow anyone with a decent brain to land a plane effectively. I wonder if his father also taught him how to skateboard on a roller coaster.... But yeah.... Conan is really far far too perfect in the movies. Also, to be honest, I'm not sure logging in hundreds of hours on a helicopter flight simulator is enough to effectively learn how to fly a helicopter properly. I'm fairly certain you need practical experience. Though I suppose its enough to learn the basics...

[Aeyra 260]

I thought we were talking about Kaitou Kid... I just thought if a line from an HP fanfic I read (Draco Veritas=awesomeness) that kind of describes Kaito and his role in DC. "He was like a beautiful, empty house... You could dream anything into him." Fans take what they're given and simply run away with it, and as long as you ignore the extreme, OMFG I <3 Kid! fangirls, most of us have made Kid into a more realistic character in our heads, and that's why we don't find him overrated or whatever. His cases are predictable, but to date, I haven't managed to figure one out... I never guess right. (of course, I never bother solving mysteries in the first place.) DC and MK give Kaito two sides, making him a richer character. He has the vengeance and goal from MK, and he's given free rein to show off his skills and intelligence in DC. (let's be honest... The DC heists are so much more flamboyant. I liked the case with the shoe... ... I can't remember what it's called.) And let's face it. Shonen boys are either perfect, or they're failures that eventually become perfect. It appeals to most people.

And I just thought of another thing... Kaito appears often enough, and so little enough, that he belongs to the fans. To date, we still are clueless as to exactly how his final battle, his life is going to play out, and fans like scrabbling at the 'what-if's. It's not that he's overrated as much as he belongs to people who do their best to make him perfect. :is thinking about Draco Malfoy's character... Fans made him who he is: Sure he's [Kaito's] perfect, but so is everyone else. And in the end, he's just another part of DC.

[kEa-cHiI 1]

most of the charcters are too perfect...and its normal and needed in the series... so kaitou kid is normal... he's not overrated...

[OTT 0]

In my view Kaitou Kid is just funny character he is no match with Shinichi except the face.Though author or script writer tried hard to make him a excellent or world best thief but KId has no deduction power I mean no detecive skil,neither he has any weapon that kill someone..........Many episodes of Kids are like Black Organisation some part story mixed with another case which I always disliked.You may say nope he is not a killer but clever thief but he said most of the time he return his stolen things.I mean what kind of theif laways return the stolen thing,is he a great soul?Then in another area if we see about his personality except dress n few dialogue his acts is just like Kogoro Mouri very un civilized behaviours towards women.All i all I think author n script writer make Kid as experimental thing.No one has so many personality unless he has multiple personality disorder......No thief can be a perfect thief this is myth magic is based on logic illusion to our eyes but here logic is missing no good explanation how he manage to escape everytime......two big question is who is Rum in Black Organization another is who is Kid?In both cases I feel disaapointed now.Why?Because......almost 1000 episodes going to complete still only one episode that black organization really involved others were all mixed with Conan's different cased n continued.....I mean come on!!That episode was 425.I understand that they do not want to finish it but like as big organization they should deserve more BO only episodes with full of ations,arent they?I see more Kids n Kids n Kids but who is this Kid no answer no progress on it just they experimeneted different impossible method of escapes bull shit......

[OTT 0]

KAITO KID IS 100% OVER RATED. A THIEF WHO RETURNS EVERY THING WHICH HE STEALS LOL

A THIEF WHO DO JOKERY LIKE HE DID IN THE MOVIE IN LOST SHIP IN THE SKY

CAN U REMEMBER WHAT HE DID WITH RAN HE TOUCH RAN'S BUTTOCK INDTEAD OF WAIST...NOW 

WHICH WELL MANNERED INTELLIGENT PPL DO THAT?

KID IS JUST AN EXPERIMENT OF D AUTHOR

AUTHOR SHOWED US HOW MANY WAYS U CAN USE TRICK TO VANISH BUT AUTHOR MADE

A STRANGE JOKER EXTERMLY INTELLIGENT WHO LOOK LIKE CONAN INTELLIEGENT THAN 

CONAN..CALL HIMSELF AN ARTIST  BUT ALSO HE IS NOT A VILLEIN HOW?

A THEIF IS NOT VILLEIN?IS HE ROBINHOOD TYPE?WHO IS HE WHY HE IS STEALING THEN?

NOT ONLY KID'S PERSONALITY AWAKWARD AS A CLEVER GUY BUT NOT ONLY WE DON'T KNOW

WHO HE IS BUT ALSO HIS STEALING MOTIVE IS UNCLEAR...NOW ALL IN ALL I THINK

I WASTED MY TIME WATCHING KAITOU KID BCOS ALL OF THESE...

NO CLEAR MOTIVE...WELL DRESSED LOOKED GREAT BUT HORRIBLE PERSONALITY A CRAZY 

ILAMMAERED TO WOMAN GUY......ALL IN ALL IF I SAY I WILL NEVER RATED HIM HIGH THEN CONAN 

I WILL ONLY RATE HIM HIGHER THAN KOGORO....THAT'S IT.......KID IS ALSO POOR IN DETECTIVE 

DEDUCTIONS